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Global Warming Skeptics point to cold winter (14 posts)

  1. truthmod
    Administrator

    The skeptics can't wait to jump on recent low temperatures and snowfalls, but there's just one problem: scientists already predicted that GW will take a breather until after 2009.

    Global warming sceptics bouyed by record cold http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/e...

    He also quotes Kenneth Tapping, of Canada's National Research Council, who oversees a giant radio telescope focused on the sun and is convinced the Earth is destined for a long period of severely cold weather if solar activity does not pick up soon.

    "The last time the sun was this inactive, Earth suffered the Little Ice Age that lasted about five centuries and ended in 1850," Gunter writes.

    "It's way too early to claim the same is about to happen again, but then it's way too early for the hysteria of the global warmers, too."

    Other figures from the NCDC, however, show that during January 2008, Europe, northern Asia and most of Australia experienced above average temperatures. According to the Bureau of Meteorology (BoM), temperatures were 3-4°C (5-7°F) above average across large areas of Western and Central Australia and as a whole, the country had its warmest January on record.

    Sea surface temperatures were also warmer than average in the Atlantic, Indian, and the northwestern Pacific oceans.

    According to the US National Climatic Data Center (NCDC), the average temperature of the global land surface in January 2008 was below the 20th century mean (-0.02°F/-0.01°C) for the first time since 1982.

    World saved! (Again)
    http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/525231/...

    The above papers don't seem to have the most objective record on GW.

    But wait...scientists already knew this was coming:

    Global warming will step up after 2009: scientists
    http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN083736...

    Global warming is forecast to set in with a vengeance after 2009, with at least half of the five following years expected to be hotter than 1998, the warmest year on record, scientists reported on Thursday.


    The real heat will start after 2009, they said.

    Until then, the natural forces will offset the expected warming caused by human activities, such as the burning of fossil fuels, which releases the greenhouse gas carbon dioxide.

    Ten-year climate model unveiled
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6939347....

    By including short-term natural events, such as El Nino, a UK team says it is able to offer 10-year projections.

    Models have previously focused on how the globe will warm over a century.

    Writing in Science, Met Office researchers project that at least half of the years between 2009 and 2014 are likely to exceed existing records.

    However, the Hadley Centre researchers said that the influence of natural climatic variations were likely to dampen the effects of emissions from human activities between now and 2009.

    Posted 16 years ago #
  2. truthmod
    Administrator

    Is this journalism? The headline and first paragraphs throw doubt on GW, then the end of the article basically explains away this point of contention.

    Scientists question global warming as world temperatures drop

    Worldwide temperatures will drop this year due to the La Nina current in the Pacific, prompting some scientists to ask if global warming really exists.

    China has suffered extreme blizzards and record low temperatures, while Australia has had torrential rain due to La Nina - one of the Pacific's two great natural currents.

    Weather experts say La Nina will last into the summer - meaning world temperatures will not have risen since 1998.

    A minority of scientists have argued this might mean the Earth has proved more resilient to greenhouse gases than predicted.

    3

    But the World Meteorological Organisation (WMO) said the decade from 1998 to 2007 was the warmest on record and forecast a new record high temperature within five years.

    Over the last century the world's average surface temperature has risen by 0.74C.

    Michel Jarraud, secretary general of the WMO, said: "When you look at climate change you should not look at any particular year.

    See the way different media outlets spin this:

    U.N. Forecasters: Global Temperatures to Decrease
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,346310,00.html

    Global warming 'dips this year'
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7329799....

    http://news.google.com/news?tab=wn&client=fire...

    Posted 16 years ago #
  3. truthmod
    Administrator

    Oh, and don't forget these guys:

    r

    http://www.infowars.com/?p=1287

    No Global Warming Since 1998 As Planet Cools Off

    Paul Joseph Watson

    Top UN scientists have been forced to admit that natural weather occurrences are having a far greater effect on climate change than CO2 emissions as a continued cooling trend means there has been no global warming since 1998.

    But despite overwhelming signs of global cooling - China’s coldest winter for 100 years and record snow levels across Northeast America - allied with temperature records showing a decline - global warming advocates still cling to the notion that the world is cooling because of global warming!


    So-called experts were lavished with media platforms to tell us that all animal life in the sea would be extinct by 1979 and England would be underwater by the year 2000, amidst a myriad of other outlandish proclamations.

    As the graph above shows, an expected downturn in global temperatures over the next 15 years will force climate change alarmists to become even more feverish.

    Al Gore’s army are going to have to get more creative and blame any weather event whatsoever, be it hurricanes, tsunamis, or floods that have battered the planet for eons, and yes even global cooling, on their favorite justification to tax, regulate and control every aspect of our life - global warming.

    Posted 16 years ago #
  4. truthmod
    Administrator

    More stellar thinking from the GW hoaxers:

    Global Warming Is Highly Beneficial
    by Walt Thiessen
    (Libertarian)
    http://www.nolanchart.com/article3401.html

    According to a scientific report given at the International Conference on Climate Change last month, anthropogenic global warming is not only not bad for the earth, it's actually extremely beneficial, and more is needed!

    First and foremost, the greens refuse to understand that global warming is directly caused by the sun. That should be patently obvious to everyone, but apparently it isn't obvious to the greens. This isn't just sad; it turns out it's the basis for a potential global calamity (but not the one the greens want us to believe in). According to Archibald, green global warming fanatics are 100% diametrically wrong. The data shows that the Earth is actually getting colder, and that this trend is likely to accelerate. It also shows that carbon dioxide's warming effect is minimal at best. Most startling of all is his point that global warming increases agricultural production, and this is where things get interesting , because if Archibald is correct, we're in for some really bad times starting in about 20 years or so.

    It turns out that as the earth cools, agricultural production declines. It's almost a perfect correlation. Archibald says that the peak in warming was reached in 1998, and that since then there has been a 0.06 degrees per year in temperature. Further, this will likely accelerate to about 0.2 degrees per year by 2009. Says Archibald:

    "The carbon dioxide that Mankind will put into the atmosphere over the next few hundred years will offset a couple of millenia of post-Holocene Optimum cooling before we plunge into the next ice age. There are no deleterious consequences of higher atmospheric carbon dioxide levels. Higher atmospheric carbon dioxide levels are wholly beneficial."

    Among other things, he is urging that we increase our burn rate of coal here in the United States to help continue the warming, because we apparently need all the warming we can get. He also gives a backhanded compliment to the greenies:

    We have to be thankful to the anthropogenic global warming proponents for one thing. If it weren’t for them and their voodoo science, climate science wouldn’t have attracted the attention of non-climate scientists, and we would be sleepwalking into the rather disruptive cooling that is coming next decade. We have a few years to prepare for that in terms of agricultural production.

    It remains to be seen what the final verdict on global warming will be, but I'm glad to see that there's a little bit of sanity being introduced into the subject.

    Posted 16 years ago #
  5. chrisc
    Member

    I've cut down how often I look at GlobalResearch.ca because of their coverage of this, for example:

    Global warming hoax exposed by record global cold
    by F. William Engdahl

    The media and governmental hype over a danger from global warming that already is allegedly causing the polar icecaps to melt and threaten a global climate catastrophe, looks more and more like the political hype it is.
    http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&...

    This is the same guy who has written on abiotic oil and against peak oil...

    Posted 16 years ago #
  6. truthmover
    Administrator

    I've cut down how often I look at GlobalResearch.ca

    Absolutely. When I first got into all this I would check GR every other day for new articles. At the time it really felt like that site was one of the only ones that covered a broad array of issues in a very candid manner without the BS. It was somewhat of an inspiration to us when we started thinking about what this site should be about.

    But in the last year its gone very seriously down hill. I have to admit I get a bit paranoid whenever something like this happens. Although its most likely that there was simply a change in leadership, I can't help but think that maybe someone was trying to undermine the project. Its not just the anti-global warming stories. The quality of stories presented has generally become lower.

    Head over there right now, and you can tell that they seem to be trying to get more attention at the expense of the quality of reporting. There are still some good articles there, but the overall credibility of the project has diminished. Very disappointing.

    Posted 16 years ago #
  7. chrisc
    Member

    Although its most likely that there was simply a change in leadership

    I think Michel Chossudovsky is still the main person behind the site, I don't know exactly how it's organised, they do encourage people to join, I haven't seen any articles written by him that are dubious.

    F. William Engdahl seems to be playing a more important role and I think his stuff is really dodgy, another example:

    War and "Peak Oil"
    - by F. William Engdahl - 2007-09-26
    Oil prices are rising but the World is not running out of oil.
    http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&...

    Stephen Lendman is also quite involved and does co-hosts their new radio show he is agnostic on peak oil:

    Peak Oil - True or False
    - by Stephen Lendman - 2008-03-06
    http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&...

    Posted 16 years ago #
  8. Kim
    Member

    Well, when "Peak Oil Critics" are driven to relying on the theory of "Abiotic Oil," they're really scraping the bottom of the barrel . . . (pun intended). Though how and why articles like this are posted on "Global Research" is beyond me. What an earth is going on over there? I mean, there is not a single qualifed oil geologist on the Planet (as far as I'm aware), that backs this crap. And Richard Heinberg comprehensively demolishes this nonsense once and for all:

    http://globalpublicmedia.com/richard_heinberg_on_a...

    Posted 16 years ago #
  9. chrisc
    Member

    The lastest Ecoshock show mentions people thinking that the cold spring means there is not a problem and takes the piss out of them, somewhat...

    SOLAR TO SAVE US Calif. scientist Nate Lewis says CO2 is rising rapidly - why only Solar can power the Earth. Then Wall Street insider of Climateer Investing explores solar market & new tech that could do the job. Who owns India's Tata, and why World Bank is financing Tata Ultra Mega coal plants as "clean energy." Ecoshock show 080411 1 hour
    CD Quality 56 MB http://www.ecoshock.net/eshock08/ES_080411_Show.mp... or Lo-Fi 14 MB http://www.ecoshock.net/eshock08/ES_080411_Show_Lo...
    http://www.ecoshock.org/

    Posted 16 years ago #
  10. truthmover
    Administrator

    I'm constantly miffed at people both supporting and contesting environmental concern based on how the breeze feels on their skin at 9:37 am on Sunday, April 13th. How do you have a strong opinion on these issues while so fundamentally missing the whole point? Since when did the average temperature during one season in one location during one year offer anyone any relevant information about global climate change?

    Posted 16 years ago #
  11. chrisc
    Member

    Yes, what happens today, or this week, or this month is weather not climate -- see: http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2008...

    Posted 16 years ago #
  12. lana
    Member

    Keep drinking the cool-aid people. If you think we are that powerful we can destroy mother earth, look at our most distructive thing, the Atomic Bomb. If you drop every one of those bombs on the Earth it will still be here. WE will not but Earth will still be here. So if I drive an SUV or dont use special light bulbs, I am killing the earth please. I have some carbon credits to sell you suckers. What ever happened to the Ozone layer issue? Oh we stopped using hair products so that disappeared?? What ever happened to the next ice age they called for in the 70's? How about the Rain forerst we were distroying? Its just another "shock" factor for this age.

    We live in a World of PC and ooo we need to do the right thing. REALIZE people that this "climate change" has been going on FOREVER. If you get off the propeganda bandwagon and use common sense, you will realize this is a farse. History has been going on before YOUR liftime and will continue AFTER your lifetime, DEAL WITH IT. Dont go by so and so's ideas, study the weather and the records. I am tired of people telling me about hurricanes and how bad they will be and when they are not, making something up to explain their ERROR. I am tired of all this CRAP and people telling me how to live my life.

    Do what YOU feel, but please let me do the same.

    I am sure the PC police will not accept this, but what happened to freedom of speech.

    Posted 16 years ago #
  13. truthmod
    Administrator

    Thanks for your input, lana.

    Posted 16 years ago #
  14. truthmover
    Administrator

    Keep drinking the cool-aid people.

    That's no way to start a conversation. Then again maybe you have no interest in conversation.

    If you think we are that powerful we can destroy mother earth, look at our most distructive thing, the Atomic Bomb. If you drop every one of those bombs on the Earth it will still be here. WE will not but Earth will still be here.

    I agree that humans could not destroy all life on earth. There was a period many millions of years ago when the entire planet was covered with ice. And at that point microscopic life continued to thrive in the place that it likely first emerged, around vents of hot water at the bottom of the ocean. While I have a respect for those lifeforms, I do think it would be a bit of a shame if humanity were annihilated.

    So if I drive an SUV or dont use special light bulbs, I am killing the earth please. I have some carbon credits to sell you suckers. What ever happened to the Ozone layer issue? Oh we stopped using hair products so that disappeared?? What ever happened to the next ice age they called for in the 70's? How about the Rain forerst we were distroying? Its just another "shock" factor for this age.

    I wouldn't say you were killing the earth. That's a bit over-dramatic. But you are contributing as we all do to a problem much larger than any one of us. And I'm not exempting a lot of people who think they are living a "green" lifestyle.

    Carbon credits aren't helping anything. The ozone layer is still deteriorating, however there has been a measurable slowing of that process due to a drop in the production and use of those things that cause the problem. Ice ages take a long time to take hold and the 70's wasn't very long ago at all. We really are destroying our rainforests at a rapid rate, and the latest culprit is clearing them to grow corn for use in biofuels. None of this is simple.

    We live in a World of PC and ooo we need to do the right thing. REALIZE people that this "climate change" has been going on FOREVER. If you get off the propeganda bandwagon and use common sense, you will realize this is a farse. History has been going on before YOUR liftime and will continue AFTER your lifetime, DEAL WITH IT. Dont go by so and so's ideas, study the weather and the records.

    You seem to be arguing both for and against the scientific method here. We are not concerning ourselves with the climate change cycle that has been going on for eons. We are specifically concerned with the derivation from that cycle that has been observed since the beginning of the industrial revolution. And that last sentence is really problematic. Which whether and records? You mean those records collected by scientists? You mean the records that demonstrate quite clearly the derivation I mention above? You mean the derivation that has been corroborated by nearly all of the worlds climate scientists? This organization spends no time refuting totally unfounded conspiracy theories suggesting that all the worlds climate scientists are fudging their date. That's not rational.

    I am tired of people telling me about hurricanes and how bad they will be and when they are not, making something up to explain their ERROR. I am tired of all this CRAP and people telling me how to live my life. Do what YOU feel, but please let me do the same.

    I think I mentioned just above on this very thread that I was also tired of people suggesting that the latest storm demonstrates something about our climate. And I don't think that anyone can literally tell you how you have to live your life. All we can do is make suggestions. Are you really than upset about suggestions? Is anyone forcing your hand? Has your lifestyle really been impeded by the environmental movement? Its not like you are going to Brazil because you enjoy chopping down old growth forests. And no one is making you recycle.

    So sure, you do what you feel, and so will I. And right now I feel like telling you that your message is more emotional than rational. It indicates to me that you have fear. And I would guess that is a fear that we are right. A fear that you really are responsible for other people whom you can not see but whom suffer for your comfort. Have your liberty, but know that it comes at the expense of someone else's. Buy your cheap clothes, big cars, and rare wood furniture. You can act like its your right to ignore the real cost of those things. That the strong are supposed to dominate the weak. Maybe that God has chosen you to be blessed. But beneath all of that is just you shitting on our planet and our children. And the problem with that attitude, is that someone out there is just as ready to shit on you.

    Maybe that's a bit of turnabout. You were kind of snotty so I poked back. But you might want to consider who you are talking to before saying things that aren't so logical or well considered.

    By the way, this response was more attention that we usually give to people who insult us. I guess I was feeling patient. But skepticism about whether humans are having an impact on climate change is off topic to this forum as it has not been logically established.

    Posted 16 years ago #

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