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William Pepper 9/11 Independent Citizens Commission (DOA?) - NYCCAN (157 posts)

51. nornnxx65
    Member

    given all the problems seen with this initiative before it got on the ballot (they needed 100K and were only recently at 20,000, according to something i saw within the last month, so I assume they didn't even get close), i'm not sorry it died. And if somehow enough sigs were collected, after a media campaign like this, who's gonna vote for it? So it will likely never reach the stage of being another coverup "investigation" like the Commission.

    There is still the potential for a serious ballot initiative to be used for something

    Also, this is the information age- this whole process has been instructive to anyone paying attention, and will be used as a lesson going forward. Less than 20% believe "all" or even "most" media reporting- at least no using their head does, and people that don't are less effective.

    http://www.sacredheart.edu/pages/20786_americans_s...

    Posted 16 years ago #
52. nornnxx65
    Member

    correction; they only needed 30K, not 100K

    Posted 16 years ago #
53. truthmover
    Administrator

    For a bit of back story, see my post on TruthAction here: http://truthaction.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=18311...

    Les knew this was a dry well, just as many of us did. But it offered him many benefits. He could get everyone involved in something and even pay them, draw donations, and once again repair his self-destructed reputation. As he states in the video at the link above, he is well aware that the mayor could keep any initiative off the ballot regardless of signatures collected. But Les wasn't aiming at a new investigation. He was playing to his audience in order to maintain his position of authority. At least that's what my gut instinct and experience of him say to me.

    And it looks as though he has succeeded. What remains to be seen is whether Les is now the go to guy when people want to do this again next year.

    Posted 16 years ago #
54. truthmover
    Administrator

    http://www.911blogger.com/node/17020

    Well...target date #4 is now August 15th. It would nice of them not to play info arbiter and just tell us the official last day for submission. And they claim to have 25,000 signatures. It looks like they are just going to just miss the mark, which would so perfectly fit my expectations about how this was going to go down.

    Get people invested in a laborious project which facilitates group identification by encouraging the perception of mutual sacrifice. Almost succeed implying that future success is possible while providing a minor emotional trauma which increases personal identification with group members and leaders. Channel the energy of these people into something unproductive.

    I can see some of the benefits that this process have offered. But they come nowhere near outweighing the negatives.

    Posted 16 years ago #
55. truthmover
    Administrator

    Dupe

    Posted 16 years ago #
56. truthmover
    Administrator

    Well, I've been griping about this for months and what I had feared all along appears to have played out. My post just above this one speaks to what we see here.

    Although we hoped to be ready for the Nov. 4th, 2008 general election, we would have needed at least 2-4 weeks longer in order to submit everything to New York City Council. Therefore, we will continue to gather petition signatures into the next year with the goal of reaching 100,000 signatures and establish a powerful mandate showing the voters of New York City are calling for the creation of a new Commission that will conduct an authentic and comprehensive investigation of 9/11.

    http://www.nyc911initiative.org/

    Posted 16 years ago #
57. Victronix
    Member

    Asner vs. Cheney in NYC 9/11 Commission Activists hope to reinvestigate with City's help New York Magazine By Mary Reinholz Aug 10, 2008 http://nymag.com/news/intelligencer/49127/

    You can leave a comment . . .

    Posted 16 years ago #
58. truthmover
    Administrator

    The picture becomes more clear.

    http://www.911blogger.com/node/17161

    Carrying Forward the NYC 9/11 Ballot Initiative (summary edit)

    Petitioners for the NYC 9/11 Ballot Initiative have now gathered in excess of 27,000 signatures of NY City registered voters who are in favor of the creation of a new, independent investigation into the 9/11 attacks.

    However, since a minimum of 30,000 valid signatures is required plus an extra margin of several thousand is recommended, it appears that time has run out to meet the Sept. 4th deadline for getting this public referendum onto the Nov. 2008 ballot.

    Although this is a great disappointment to the dozens of dedicated people working on the Initiative, they have also accepted that it may be a blessing in disguise. The presidential race would have drawn so much media attention as to overshadow this effort to establish a new, independent, and impartial “truth commission”.

    Therefore, it has been decided that it’s best to continue the petition drive into the next election cycle, since the current petitions will still be usable.

    It’s important to note that in addition to the collection of 27,000 signatures, there have been other related accomplishments. ... (The good stuff)

    That said, many of us here continue to believe that the NYC 9/11 Ballot Initiative is the culmination of 7 years of research and activism because it’s designed to result in a legally recognized investigation. So we are strategizing for the next stage.

    Les Jamieson

    Coordinator

    NYC 9/11 Ballot Initiative

    Posted 16 years ago #
59. Victronix
    Member

    since the current petitions will still be usable

    That seems odd. I wonder if that's correct.

    It's unfortunate to think what could be done with all that contact info, thousands . . . like free advertising for the next hoax person.

    Posted 16 years ago #
60. truthmover
    Administrator

    I also find that odd. The petition states that all pages must be signed by the voter. They are signing a petition to get the attached initiative that they also sign onto the ballot. I can't quite square how you can take their signature on the first page and use it to imply that they have approved anything other than what was originally included.

    And, yeah, score another victory for Les and his three ring circus tent.

    Posted 16 years ago #
61. truthmover
    Administrator

    I was hoping we might use this thread instead of the other as it more thoroughly covers the issue.

    As I understand it, Carl Person broke with the NYC ballot initiative and started his own project. That's what this following site represents.

    911realinvestigation.org

    And here's the project run by Pepper and Jamieson.

    nyc911initiative.org

    It's all crap. Disinfo against disinfo to bolster the credibility of disinfo. And lots of dupes to support it. Oh, sorry, that wasn't a very educational attitude. Rather, I really hope all those movement leaders who should know better, realize that those concerned with the ballot initiative aren't blowing smoke up their ass. Not that they are listening to us. Many of them still support Kevin Barrett.

    Posted 15 years ago #
62. truthmover
    Administrator

    Victronix said:

    Is it true that ballot initiatives can just reuse all the signatures from previous election cycles? I would assume that means that nothing has changed in terms of the parameters, the money, the Commissioners, etc

    This was my central question after they didn't quite make it last time. It would seem quite reasonable to assume that you can't change the content of a ballot initiative without scrapping all previously collected signatures. People's have signed a specific document and their signature does not endorse a different one.

    Further, we have little reason to assume that Pepper, Les, and the rest have responded in any substantive way to all our previously expressed concerns above. So, yes, I think it's still the same ridiculous initiative. UFO people, $50 million dollar price tag, etc,...

    Posted 15 years ago #
63. christs4sale
    Administrator

    Here is the updated website for the Ballot Initiative: nyccan.org

    Posted 15 years ago #
64. truthmover
    Administrator

    It seems to me missing the enforced mediocrity of a Les Jamieson page. But then, graphics and decent writing don't go very far toward convincing me that this is a good idea. The initiative is still a mess.

    Posted 15 years ago #
65. Victronix
    Member

    It seems like ny911truth is now 100% about the ballot initiative.

    http://www.ny911truth.org/

    Posted 15 years ago #
66. christs4sale
    Administrator

    With this one: nyccan.org

    this one: 911realinvestigation.org

    and this one: nyc911initiative.org

    it is becoming a bit confusing.

    Granted, I think that two of these are the same group and one is the 'opposition.'

    Posted 15 years ago #
67. christs4sale
    Administrator

    Keep 'em coming:

    Former astronaut: Man not alone in universe

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/04/20/ufo.conference/...

    Posted 15 years ago #
68. truthmover
    Administrator

    So here's the latest over on 911blogger:

    NYC CAN Update: Now 35,000 signatures

    http://www.911blogger.com/node/19978

    More silliness. At least Rep is trying to encourage them to get Mitchell off the commission. But it won't matter. They have only collected about 5000 signatures in the past year. Now, one month before the deadline they have to collect another not only another 10,000 that could be required by the state, and another 10,000 to deal with potential spoilage. The oft predicted failure awaits.

    By the way, if this doesn't work out this year and they try to say they are working on it again for next year, I'm gunna hulk out and smash some stuff.

    Posted 15 years ago #
69. christs4sale
    Administrator

    This is from a conference call in May regarding the transition from the NYC 9/11 Ballot Initiative to NYCCAN. Sorry to those who this is old news for:

    Below are Jonathan Mark's minutes for the NYC CAN conference call. They are very full, but they do not convey the magnitude of what is being planned for September's event in NYC. I think if I save my pennies I will be there for all three days, and I hope many of you will keep me company. Friday (11th): Big Concert. Weekend: Conference. Affordable too.

    Coalition for 9/11 Truth Leaders
    Teleconference - Last Wednesday of each month
    9pm ET; 6pm pt - May 27, 2009 - Minutes
    Submitted by Facilitator - Jonathan Mark
    

    Date: 5/27/2009
    Present on the call:
    

    Kyle Hence - www.911pressfortruth.com
    Sander Hicks - www.sanderhicks.com
    Don Stahl - www.stl911.org
    Jonathan Mark - www.flybynews.com + www.valley911truth.org
    Donald Meserlian - www.voicesofsafety.com/pogonews
    

    As you can see this was a small group, but much was accomplished and learned.

    Besides those present, others contacted me by email endorsing our letter ( http://files.meetup.com/300645/NYC%20CAN%20-%20sup... ) to support the petitioning NYC CAN campaign. They include:

    Richard Gage - www.ae911truth.org
    Kevin Barrett - www.truthjihad.com
    Mike Palecek - www.newamericandream.net
    William Veale - www.l911t.com
    

    I will submit to post letter and supporters endorsing it on all the good web sites..
    911truth.org - 911blogger - new american dream - rock creek free press
    911visibility, global outlook, idaho observer, etc..
    please post link print-out and distribute.. and endorse:
    NYC CAN support letter-pdf -
    http://files.meetup.com/300645/NYC%20CAN%20-%20sup...

    Please distribute letter
    (i can send this pdf file to you by a word document file by request.)
    and call everyone you know.. new NYC CAN members are real heroes.
    

    the key is in uniting in this campaign..
    rather than truthers getting too spread out and ineffective.
    

    For the above reason.. after Don Meserlian hung up on us and complained,
    because we did not want to participate in his campaign http://www.voicesofsafety.com/ at this time.. our group decided to drop our endorsing it for now..

    we need to focus our efforts being a small group..on the best plan possible..

    THE GOOD NEWS

    Sander is one of the key truthers on the streets in NYC collecting petitioner signatures, and coaching others. He received word from Ted Walter that about 45,000 petitions have been collected. This is the amount required to get the referendum vote on the ballot, and bypassing any vetos from the city council. The goal is 75,000, but even just 50,000 petitions should be enough to overcome any unregistered-voter petitions.. but, still, 75,000 petitioners would be welcome in support of this campaign gathering unstoppable momentum for an independent people (democracy) authorized investigation that CAN overcome any obstacles by our so-called representative government politicians and mainstream media.

    Kyle mentioned his speaking with Michael Wolsey and other truthers, who have been hesitant in supporting this campaign due to a controversial Commissioner member on this campaign, former astronaut Edgar Mitchell. This is due to his statements regarding another issue, UFO disclosure. After some debate, the group joined in a consensus for Sander to contact William Pepper and mention this 'public relations' concern. The question we came to was why even give the media such a diversionary topic to try to discredit the campaign or the NYC-authorized 9/11 Commissioners. Those on the call were committed to the NYC CAN campaign no matter Edgar Mitchell and the Board of 9/11 Commissioners decide. I tried to get a link to list of current petitioners, but could not find at nyccan.org

    The rest is available at: http://www.meetup.com/StLouis9-11Questions/boards/...

    No where do I see Jamieson addressed on this, but maybe this is incomplete. Kevin Barrett and William Veale are not endorsements I would want.

    For more on Veale: www.truthmove.org/forum/topic/1374

    Here is the last part:

    Coalition for 9/11 Truth Leaders
    Teleconference - Last Wednesday of each month
    9pm ET; 6pm pt - Next one June 24, 2009
    9pm ET; 6pm pt - May 27
    Teleconference # 1 (218) 339-2699
    Access code: 737665 #
    

    Thank You please feel welcome to forward this to others that may be interested in working with us.

    Richard Gage, John Heartson, Don Harkins, Don DeBar, Scott Halfmann, Kevin Ryan, Steven E. Jones, William Rodriguez, David Ray Griffin, Jason King, William Douglas, Steve Alten , Tom Tvedten, Sander Hicks, Justin Martel, les jamieson, Michael Jackman, michael@visibility911.com, Peggy Brewster, Barrie Zwicker, Erik Lawyer, Gabriel Day, Kevin Barrett, Carol Brouillet, Mia Hamel, Donald C. Meserlian, P.E., Paul Craig Roberts, Jack Blood, Jon Gold, Chris Gruener, Cheryl Curtiss, Jodie Baltazar, Jarek Kupsc, Joseph Culp, Ken Jenkins, Ellen Mariani, Gerhard Bedding, Jim Smart , Jack Shimek, Paul Krik, Rock Creek Free Press, Damon Bean, David Slesinger, Allan Giles, Kyle Hence, Janice Matthews , Michael Berger, Dylan Avery, Korey.Rowe, Jason Burmas, Robert Bowman, Mike Palecek, Donald Stahl, Ray McGovern, Cynthia McKinney, Dwain Deets, Bill Veale, Don Plummer, Global Outlook, Judy Shelton, Paul Zarembka, Penny Little, Peter Thottam, Ralph Schoenman, Scholars for 911 Truth & Justice, John Schuster, Hummux, Political Leaders for 9/11 Truth, Frank Morales, JF Ranger, Alan Miller, Jonathan Mark

    Maybe some of us should try to get on one of these calls to try to shift the direction. Also, Les' name being attached to this and the email sent to the Ballot Initiative list sent by list at about this time are not reassuring about Les' involvement.

    Posted 15 years ago #
70. JohnA
    Member

    the 'GOOD NEWS' is that Sander Hicks is one of the 'key truthers' in this initiative?

    Posted 15 years ago #
71. christs4sale
    Administrator

    Q: How were the Commissioners selected?

    The Commissioners were selected by the crafters of the petition based on an assessment of each candidate’s investigative ability and commitment to following the evidence wherever it may lead. The crafters of the petition sought candidates from diverse backgrounds who are widely respected and can be trusted to investigate rigorously on the public’s behalf.

    http://www.meetup.com/StLouis9-11Questions/boards/...

    Do we know who were the crafters of the petition because that would explain a lot with regards to Mitchelll? Are the crafters still involved?

    Posted 15 years ago #
72. christs4sale
    Administrator

    7) The Commission shall have a budget not to exceed $10,000,000 per year for the conduct of its investigation and related activities. Financing shall be entirely drawn from private contributions. No public funds shall be requested or accepted. Four prominent citizens have pledged substantial matching fund contributions. In addition, pledges of specific contributions from wealthy private individuals are being obtained with payment subject to enactment of the Initiative by the voters of New York City. A substantial five figure seed money fund has been established as of January 2008, and a world wide internet fund raising campaign has been launched. Celebrity parties, concerts and other fund raising events and activities are also being planned to take place throughout the months of the Petition drive. Cumulatively, these sources will provide for the funding of the investigation. The work of the Commission will commence upon the expected realization of the full funds specified in our anticipated budget.

    http://www.nyccan.org/PetitionForm1Signature.pdf

    Posted 15 years ago #
73. JohnA
    Member

    and will these 'wealthy private investors' enjoy a privilaged position within the initiative?

    for example: can certain 'wealthy individuals' dictate which avenues of investigation receive the most attention? I seem to remember wealthy private investor Jimmy Walter enjoyed the 'flash before impact' videos from 'In Plane Sight.'

    The Commissioners were selected by the crafters of the petition based on an assessment of each candidate’s investigative ability and commitment to following the evidence wherever it may lead.

    yes. 80 year old actor Ed Asner played Lou Grant on TV.

    Posted 15 years ago #
74. christs4sale
    Administrator

    Here is Sander Hicks being interviewed by Kevin Barrett several months ago when the Ballot Initiative changed to NYCCAN:

    http://noliesradio.org/archives/279

    ColJennySparks he is not. Sander does not raise one peep about Barrett's credibility, which I would think is the only reason to talk with Barrett in any sort of forum at this point.

    Here are a few things that Sander discusses:

    -he is trying to communicate with Vincent Bugliosi in order to "broaded the scope" of the 9/11 truth movement. Bugliosi has come out against the Iraq War and the 2000 Election, but he has also wrote Reclaiming History and Outrage about the OJ Simpson case.

    -he is the treasurer of NYCCAN

    -he does not mention Edgar Mitchell and certainly not Jamieson, but does mention COINTELPRO in a generic way.

    Posted 15 years ago #
75. JohnA
    Member

    he has also hosted Fetzer and Haupt at his coffee house in Bklyn.

    he also single handedly destroyed our Riverside Church event in 2004 with Scott Ritter as guest speaker.

    getting Scott Ritter to speaker at a 9/11 Truth event was pretty significant - wouldn't you say?

    Hicks' performance rivaled a Haupt disruption on the obnoxious scale. but i'm tired of telling this story. lets just pitch a big tent and invite all the clowns

    Posted 15 years ago #

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