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House Hearing on "Terrorism and the Internet" includes 9/11 sites (21 posts)

1. Arabesque
   Member

   Simon Wiesenthal Center presents 9/11 sites alongside radical Jihadist sites to House Hearing on "Terrorism and the Internet"

   http://www.911blogger.com/node/12505

   On Tuesday, November 6, 2007, a House Homeland Security Subcommittee had a hearing on "Terrorism and the Internet". The hearing featured presentations from several groups, including the RAND Corporation, and Mark Weitzman of the Simon Wiesenthal Center. The hearing was chaired by Democratic Rep. Jane Harman, and ranking Republican, Rep. Dave Reichert. Toward the end of the hearing, Weitzman rolls out a PowerPoint presentation that presents a few 9/11 truth sites sandwiched in between websites that offer training in terrorist tactics, and a website that glorified the attack of 9/11. Among the websites presented under the heading "Internet: Incubator of 9/11 Conpiracies and Disinformation", are Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, and other sites, such as Killtown's, who brought this Hearing to our attention.

   Posted 16 years ago #
2. Victronix
   Member

   Thanks for posting. I saw that but haven't been able to watch because I'm listening to Richard Gage's debate.

   It would be best if someone could do a short transcript and list those that they mention.

   Posted 16 years ago #
3. truthmover
   Administrator

   Just the next predictable step.

   I predict that in the next year there will be another school shooting, and that they will find and mention 9/11 truth references found at his home.

   I predict that in the next year, yet another person considered to be a part of the "Axis of Evil" or a "terrorist" will declare support our movement.

   I predict that in the next year, a number of people in the movement will discover that they are being investigated.

   I predict that in the next year, someone unstable will lose their shit at one of our events, and their actions will be used to "demonstrate" that our movement is dangerous.

   But as I said elsewhere, who is going to really believe that architects, engineers, family members of victims, first responders, and concerned citizens, are really any kind of domestic security threat? I just don't think this will stick. And the result of that would be that those promoting this will look more fascist and nutty themselves.

   Such irrational behavior from people declaring our irrationality.

   They need to take a long look in the mirror. We need to not be scared.

   Posted 16 years ago #
4. truthmod
   Administrator

   This is scary (and outrageous). The comments on blogger are also scarily focused on Jews and Zionists.

   http://www.911blogger.com/node/12505

   Posted 16 years ago #
5. Victronix
   Member

   Yes, I posted about it. Others should also post their concerns directly and often. If we don't speak up when the act is happening, it will spread.

   Posted 16 years ago #
6. Arabesque
   Member

   This looks like classic disinfo. You spread around a lot of BS around some grain of truth and then it is discredited. This turned into a thread about Zionism for some reason, when it should be about calling 9/11 truth sites terrorists.

   The moderators need to do something.

   I don't understand what this topic has to do with Zionism. Am I missing something here?

   Posted 16 years ago #
7. JonGold
   Member

   http://www.wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/502

   "Some Welcome Truth At 911 Blogger - Zionists Jump the Shark Big Time"

   Posted 16 years ago #
8. Arabesque
   Member

   "The most perfidious way of harming a cause consists of defending it deliberately with faulty arguments." Friedrich Nietzsche, The Gay Science, section 191

   Posted 16 years ago #
9. truthmod
   Administrator

   Others should also post their concerns directly and often. If we don't speak up when the act is happening, it will spread.

   Yes we should, but it's exhausting. 911blogger seems like a lost cause, I don't read it much anymore. And I only have so much energy to go up against these people. I'd rather just post a link to the statement instead.

   Posted 16 years ago #
10. JonGold
    Member

    I don't have the energy anymore either. I've asked to stay on moderated comments on 911Blogger.com because unfortunately, I fall into arguments too easily. I've also asked Cosmos to ban me from truthaction.org because I was getting into fights there that I wouldn't walk away from. It saps your energy.

    Posted 16 years ago #
11. NicholasLevis
    Member

    focusing on the hearings, now:

    http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboa...

    Homeland Security Links 9/11 Truthers to Taliban

    November 14, 2007 at 13:06:59

    by Barbara Peterson Page 1 of 1 page(s)

    http://www.opednews.com

    Do you remember when Bush Jr. said, “either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists”? Well, he meant it. Homeland Security’s sub-committee on terrorism risk assessment convened a hearing on 11-06-2007 to discuss “using the Web as a weapon – the Internet as a tool for violent radicalization and homegrown terrorism.” In a video of this meeting, which was last aired by C-Span on 11-12-2007, members of the sub-committee clearly pointed to Internet sites that question the legitimacy of the official 9/11 story as tools for recruiting terrorists.

    During the course of the hearing, Mark Weitzman of the Simon Wiesenthal Center displayed a Power Point Presentation illustrating what his organization considers terrorist recruitment sites. Here is his testimony:

    To illustrate the trends described above, we have put together a short PowerPoint demonstration. Without going into deep detail in these written remarks, I would like to offer some brief descriptions of the material that will be shown. The presentation begins with a look at how 9/11 is viewed in some eyes online, including those who applauded it as well as some conspiracies sites. The presence of the conspiracy site is significant, since so much of what passes as fact online is actually based on some form of conspiracy...

    Next is a series of sites of media portals which show some of the varied methods that the Islamists use to get their message out, including some based on United States servers. These are followed by some looks at charts and other manuals on how to use violence, along with a novel interpretation of jihad that calls for an “electronic jihad.”

    One of these “media portals” displayed in the Power Point presentation is Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth. This site is sandwiched between a Taliban training manual, and several Taliban recruitment sites showing how to make bombs, take captives, and blow buildings up.

    Representative Jane Harmon posed the following question to Mark Weitzman regarding the connection between 9/11 “conspiracy theorists” and terrorists: “So this movement develops them into violent killers?” Weitzman stated: “These people are constructing their own version of reality, full of conspiracy theories, full of doctored videos, that will recruit or inflame the emotions.” Bruce Hoffman, a Georgetown University security studies professor, and Chairman of the Rand Corporation in Counterterrorism and Counterinsurgency, agreed that “falsehoods and conspiracy theorists have become so ubiquitous and believed that you almost have some sort of parallel truth, and it has become a very effective tool for recruiting people.” The “people” he is referring to are potential terrorists.

    Posted 16 years ago #
12. NicholasLevis
    Member

    We all need to understand - and it was probably true by November 2001, actually - that if we weren't on a list before, we are now, every one of us, regardless of efforts at pseudonyms or proxies (one reason many of us choose to use our real names and take the credibility advantage that being a real person confers with others, and also make a direct statement to "them": we aren't afraid and we have nothing to hide or be ashamed of).

    And there is an organizational chart or several somewhere mapping our "position" - utterly laughable no doubt given the very idea that this thing is organized.

    Posted 16 years ago #
13. Arabesque
    Member

    “either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists”?

    Another example of the false dichotomy as I quoted recently in my LIHOP/MIHOP article.

    Remembering back to when he first said this, I had mixed feelings on the statement. Of course, now this has even far more sinister implications.

    I would just like to point out, that Kevin Barrett is one of the people I have been complaining about because he has been making statements that could be interpreted as threats to journalists. I think this is very dangerous and it needs to be taken seriously. But at the same time, I don't want to bring it up in every thread because I'm tired of being attacked. For about a few months after the KW controversy erupted, there was a harassment campaign against me where I was basically called a "disinfo cop" in every other thread for daring to make critical comments. Eventually, after complaining many times, this was addressed, but to speak honestly, I feel like there is hostility to reason at times on 911blogger. The snarky and trollish comments get tiresome after a while, so I completely understand how some of the people above feel.

    Posted 16 years ago #
14. NicholasLevis
    Member

    Arabesque - what you say about the curious mood swings of Dr. B/Mr. Hyde.

    Meanwhile, I feel like this should be a top discussion item but am unsure what's to be said or done. Truthmover's very good post above inspires me one moment with its conclusion, makes me think he's too optimistic the next.

    Posted 16 years ago #
15. jan
    Member

    Small comfort, but this latest attack brings to mind the initial shock and horror I felt in early 2005 when I stumbled upon an ADL event list on the internet that included 911truth.org as a domestic terrorist threat (along with the OKBIC). This inclusion was apparently their reaction to 911truth having a staff member (myself) at the OKC Bombing, Ten Years Later Speakers Forum. Sheesh. http://okc.digitalstyledesigns.com/SpeakersForum/i... There were a variety of other attacks, but this one was the most surprising to me. (nothing came of it, it passed as I believe this will)

    Posted 16 years ago #
16. NicholasLevis
    Member

    Sorry. This time has a lot more dirty water under the bridge, a different, more coordinated flavor, more media saying it (the liberals have moved past the "how charming are these morons" stage), more players, House hearings by Democrats, and the wackos or agents on "our side" calling us all "al Qaeda" on cue and threatening murder, plus many mostly sincere idiots on "our side" running around screaming "scum" at people who may or may not have been in on 9/11 and linking 9/11 to everything from the Federal Reserve and Ron Paul to UFOs... it doesn't look to blow over that easily, but rather more like a prelude to at best a national discussion about how health care reform needs to secure a diagnosis and a pill for every one of us. And that's at best.

    Posted 16 years ago #
17. Victronix
    Member

    Seems like many are now jumping on the bandwagon of "I was called a terrorist!" Afterall, it's guaranteed to spike google rankings, isn't it?

    Two emails I got today --

    Bush is trying to set up OpEdNews as a "terrorist recruiter." by Ed Martin
    http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_ed_marti_0...

    Neocon Attack on Ron Paul: Greasing the Skids for Implementation of H.R. 1955? Kurt Nimmo, TruthNews, November 15, 2007 http://www.truthnews.us/?p=849

    So who isn't a terrorist these days?? The only ones I haven't heard from yet are American Free Press.

    I remember a few years ago when some businessman was having his billboards defaced with anti-war graffiti -- he was calling those who did it "economic terrorists." It was on the news, and laughable. But likely for those who were implicated, it would have been chilling.

    Which is exactly what the businessman wanted.

    I agree that this time is more coordinated, but toward what end? Most things that are coordinated in the US are toward making money. I saw an article the other day about a bunch of Ron Paul coins that were apparently hauled away by the Feds and disappeared --

    "FBI and Secret Service Seize Over 2 Tons of Ron Paul Liberty Dollars - They also took all the gold" http://www.freedomsphoenix.com:80/Feature-Article....

    But then someone else pointed out it was clearly warned that this would happen in advance --

    "Second, the advertisements confusingly refer to NORFED "Liberty Dollar" medallions as "legal" and "constitutional." However, under the Constitution ( Article I, section 8, clause 5 ), Congress has the exclusive power to coin money of the United States and to regulate its value." http://www.usmint.gov/consumer/index.cfm?flash=yes...

    So did someone get set up to "lose" a lot of medallions to the Fed?

    Who wins with this? It's hard to know. But it's hard to imagine anyone selling those could be that stupid.

    I think we have to turn an extremely sharp corner for 9/11 activists to be shut up, and that corner has to also then extend to countries around the world, like Japan, Italy, UK, France, etc. Shutting us all up, jailing anyone, calling us terrorists, or anything else, requires risk. Any risk taken has to be worth it. Plans can backfire, unforeseen events can occur. One never knows. Afterall, it only takes one person with a handful of photographs dropped on the right desk to turn a whole operation upside down.

    I just finished watching the film "The Lives of Others." It's related to all this -- ways to intimidate and control others. Based on real life events, but fictional. I recommend it. It puts things in perspective. Especially if you've ever been to East Germany.

    http://imdb.com/title/tt0405094/

    Posted 16 years ago #
18. Victronix
    Member

    This was posted to the local 9/11 group list I'm on. I'll cut the article down to the points that the poster cited in red.

    ---

    Please read this all of the way through. AE911truth.org has already been targeted by this group, and HR 1955 is likely to sail through the Senate. ~Scott

    http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bal-...

    Here come the thought police

    By Ralph E. Shaffer and R. William Robinson November 19, 2007

    With overwhelming bipartisan support, Rep. Jane Harman's "Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act" passed the House 404-6 late last month and now rests in Sen. Joe Lieberman's Homeland Security Committee. Swift Senate passage appears certain.

    Not since the "Patriot Act" of 2001 has any bill so threatened our constitutionally guaranteed rights.

    . . . .

    While its purpose is to prevent terrorism, the bill doesn't criminalize any specific conduct or contain penalties. But the commission's findings will be cited by those who see a terrorist under every bed and who will demand enactment of criminal penalties that further restrict free speech and other civil liberties. Action contrary to the commission's findings will be interpreted as a sign of treason at worst or a lack of patriotism at the least.

    While Ms. Harman denies that her proposal creates "thought police," it defines "homegrown terrorism" as "planned" or "threatened" use of force to coerce the government or the people in the promotion of "political or social objectives." That means that no force need actually have occurred as long as the government charges that the individual or group thought about doing it.

    . . . .

    Ms. Harman denies that her bill is a threat to the First Amendment. It clearly states that no measure to prevent homegrown terrorism should violate "constitutional rights, civil rights or civil liberties."

    But the present administration has demonstrated, in its response to criticism regarding torture, that it can't be trusted to honor those rights.

    Ralph E. Shaffer, professor emeritus of history at California State Polytechnic University, Pomona, and R. William Robinson, an elected director of a Southern California water district, wrote this article for the History News Service.

    Posted 16 years ago #
19. truthmod
    Administrator

    I just finished watching the film "The Lives of Others."

    Yes, it's an excellent movie, also fairly positive/optimistic. Maybe I should see it again; I'm not feeling very optimistic.

    Posted 16 years ago #
20. NicholasLevis
    Member

    "The Lives of Others" - I cried & cried. A great movie.

    However, what if "The White Rose" is the more relevant German example?

    Posted 16 years ago #
21. Victronix
    Member

    what if "The White Rose" is the more relevant German example?

    And what if what hit the WTC wasn't a real commercial jet?

    just kidding.

    If the US is slipping into the that level of a total meltdown then there's probably little we can really do about it. We can keep an eye on things and plan on "getting out" if things totally tank. But at what point is that? The country is packed with rich people who run businesses and plan on keeping on doing that.

    I feel positive because I think that a LOT of people have learned a lot in a very short time frame.

    Partly this is due to the overindulgence of the Bush Admin in committing crimes to get rich right in peoples' faces and part of it is due to the massive "Green" and "Global Warming" wave that has taken over the world. Immense changes are happening around energy that haven't happened in many decades, extremely positive and worldwide. We are now facing worldwide climate and energy problems that force us to cooperate on the world stage. But the thing is that most people have realized that they have to go AROUND the government now if they want to get things done. And they are.

    Also, it seems likely that more and more catastrophes will happen, natural and manmade, and the US economy is becoming its own disaster. The combo of those are the real unknown. If natural catastrophes happen that, say, wipe out a US city and kill millions in one day, then that can change everyone's game plan. And at the rate we're going, that could happen. So I think our future is really more difficult to determine now because we have added several levels of power to a single varible - storms and climate change - that can affect every other variable.

    My guess is that climate change and economic shifts are going to overshadow almost everything soon. It seems unlikely that a "White Rose" is going to happen in the midst of those. But if it does, there's probably little we can do about it except what we're already doing.

    Once we stop speaking out, they win. And no one is going to rescue the trapped US population. So shutting up is not the answer.

    Posted 16 years ago #

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