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Ron Paul is a Constitutionalist (13 posts)

  1. Lark
    Member

    This is my first post. As such, I must point out that there are many types of libertarians; yet there is but one U.S. Constitution.

    I, for one, am not a libertarian - nor am a constitutionalist. But I support Ron Paul for President in 2008.

    Personally, I reject labels which cling to me like a cheap suit... as I'm decidedly anti-authoritarian... but opinionated enough that I must believe in some things... like certain aspects of morality and ethics, for instance - what some might call utilitarian principles - because my intentions... and my actions... speak volumes about who I am.

    Don't they? Well, okay... maybe not always.

    Language itself can often be described as a tyranny-of-words. Therefore, as I abhor oppression, I cannot say I'm anything special - or even, not-so-special. I cannot say I hold to any truth. And I cannot say I'm a free man either.

    Seeking of pleasure at every turn, I'm... nevertheless... at times... unhappy.

    If I had been given the right to name myself - considering I'd been born naked and without language into this world - I would have given myself a half a dozen names to myself by now. And I have.

    But perhaps I can be of assistance to you. Allow me to introduce you to the concept of radical honesty.

    http://trustedadvisor.com/blog/163/#comment550

    Talk soon.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  2. truthmod
    Administrator

    Hello and welcome, Lark.

    We're very skeptical here of Ron Paul, but always open to reasonable discussion.

    Check out these threads:

    http://www.truthmove.org/forum/topic/559?replies=3... http://www.truthmove.org/forum/topic/435?replies=2...

    Posted 17 years ago #
  3. truthmover
    Administrator

    Radical Honesty - Interesting parallels

    The best relationships live in language, heart-to-heart talks, and co-produced efforts… facilitated by uncommonly honest dialog.

    True, we shouldn’t try to steamroll someone who’s built up walls around themselves, and are slow to accept us, let alone, trust us. And why the hell should they? Like all animals in the natural world, we need a little time to run, fight, or first sniff things out.

    And, truth be told, we’ve built our own monuments – beset by our own boundaries – and we’re wrapped in the trappings of personality and stagecraft.

    Here's what Wikipedia has to say about it.

    Radical Honesty is the name of a self improvement program developed by Brad Blanton PhD that challenges people to give up their addiction to lying. The method focuses the practitioner on being present with what is happening within themselves and separating their objective observation from their subjective judgment and having a higher level of consciousness as to which is which.

    Welcome to the forum, and thanks for this very interesting introduction. I can tell that the encyclopedia and dictionary are poor venues for the expression of this concept as it seems to be more practical and personal than programmatic or broadly definitive.

    I find a lot here that is consonant with our strategy here at TruthMove relative to the 9/11 truth movement. We've been talking lately about the importance of making the clear distinction between our psychological motivations and responses to doing this and the strictly factual information we are promoting.

    Most people in this movement, an I'd say in general, have a very difficult time subjecting their ego and their paradigm to the full force of the truth. On some level radical honesty is just the scientific method in practice. If we each are personally dedicated to a process of understanding our world and our lives by the continuous attempt to disprove our own hypotheses, we learn through that process to see clearly the distinction between wanting to believe something, and the necessity that we adapt to the facts.

    I think 'futilitarianism' is not a name that implies what it is meant to suggest. From the dictionary, "Holding or based on the view that human endeavor is futile." I know I said the dictionary couldn't cut it, but I'm talking about public perception here. Its seems to be more about the futility of political nomenclature, and yet will be viewed by many on first examination as yet another 'ism.' Coming up with a better name might be more honest. :)

    Posted 17 years ago #
  4. truthmover
    Administrator

    Now, about Ron Paul

    Ron Paul does not represent any concern for the Constitution as a living document. He doesn't seem so enthusiastic about any of the Amendments after the first ten. That would be 17. I'm sure he thinks women should have the right to vote.

    I object to the term 'Constitutionalist.' Everyone who considers themselves progressive or traditional in this country cares about the Constitution, and what our present government is doing to it. The whole point of being a representative in the country is upholding the Constitution, while representing your constituents. No one group should hold the document over their head and act like they have the most genuine adherence to those principles.

    Ron Paul is one of the most conservative members of Congress. For all his time in office he has continued to vote in strict adherence to his Libertarian philosophy. He sure sounds reasonable standing next to a bunch of industrial puppets, but would look like a real dunce trying to debate someone like Cornell West. Think about that one for a second.

    He will not get the Republican nomination.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  5. CNT
    Member

    "CONSTITUTIONALISM": THE WHITE MAN'S GHOST DANCE by Robert C. Black*

    Dale Pond, Howard Fisher, Richard Knutson, and the North American Freedom Council. The History of American Constitutional or Common Law with Commentary Concerning Equity and Merchant Law. Santa Fe, New Mexico: The Message Company, 1995.

    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.

    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man. But will they come when you do call for them?

    • Henry IV, Part I (III, i, 53)

    Once upon a time, there was a fair land called England.

    All the English were free men and most of them were serfs. All the English were self-governing in counties run by sheriffs appointed by kings, the descendants of foreign conquerors. England alone enjoyed the Common Law, handed down from Sinai by Moses, and dating from 1215 A.D. Secured by the Common Law, all men's property was inviolable, and all of it belonged to the king. The Common Law, also known as Natural Law and God's Law, only restricted conduct which harmed the person or property of another, such as swearing, fornicating, possessing weapons in the royal forests, converting to Judaism, or dreaming that the king had died. There was complete religious freedom, i.e., Roman Catholicism was the state church, attendance at services was compulsory, and heretics were executed. As perfect, as unchangeable as the Common Law always was, it got even better when free and prosperous Englishmen fleeing persecution and poverty brought it to America. They repaired there, as Garrison Keilor quipped, to enjoy less freedom than they had in England.

    As fantasy, this Common Law England would never find a publisher. It's not nearly as believable as Narnia or Never-Never Land. You don't even have to know any real law or history to notice that it's self-contradictory nonsense. But as myth, it appeals to increasingly frustrated conservatives, libertarians, fundamentalists, and conspiracy theorists -- "Constitutionalists" -- with an urgent transrational need to believe that the world was once the way they want it to be now.

    The deeper allure of Constitutionalism is that it purports to be, not only history which explains, but technique which controls. Resentful and suspicious, Constitutionalists are certain that conniving judges, legislators and lawyers switched their own false law for the real law when the people weren't looking. But the real law, the Common Law, lives still, for it is deathless; it is God, Nature, and Reason all rolled up in one. Although Constitutionalists loathe lawyers, they outdo them in their reverence for Law and their solemn obeisance before what Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes mocked as Law regarded as a "brooding omnipresence in the sky."

    Constitutionalists look upon law as the word-magic of lawyer-necromancers who draw their wizardly powers from grimoires, from books of magic spells they have selfishly withheld from the people. Constitutionalists have extracted from these books -- from judicial opinions, from the Constitution, from legal dictionaries, from the Bible, from what-have-you -- white magic with which to confound the dark powers of legislation, equity, and common sense. Never mind what words like "Sovereign Citizen" or "Lawful Money" mean -- what does "abacadabra" mean? -- it's what they do that counts. Unfortunately, Constitutionalist words don't do anything but lose court cases and invite sanctions. Constitutionalism is the white man's version of the Ghost Dance. But believing you are invulnerable to bullets puts you in more, not less, danger of being shot.

    Jutting out of the wreakage called Constitutionalism are certain more elevated piles, such as "Common Law" and "Magna Carta." These are, if in no better repair than the rest of the ruins, at least of respectable antiquity. Back when little was known of English legal history -- when history as a discipline scarcely existed -- ingenious jurists like Selden, Coke and Hale manipulated these hoary myths to win some limited victories over royal absolutism. Even if Constitutionalists were juridical Jack Kennedys and not, as they are, Dan Quayles, the conditions for getting away with pious lying about these parts of the past no longer obtain. Good history does not necessarily overthrow legal orthodoxy, but by now bad history never does. So unprincipled are judges and lawyers that they will even tell the truth if it serves their purposes. Consider, for instance, the unscrupulous ways in which they might point out what the Magna Carta actually says and what the Common Law actually is.

    Constitutionalists revere the Magna Carta, but if they were to read it, they'd be baffled. Expecting to find, as libertarian Constitutionalist Ken Krawchuk says, "many of the rights we still enjoy today," they'd find themselves adrift in an alien, feudal world of "aids," "wardship," "scutage," "knight service," "reliefs," "wainage," "castle guard," "socage," "burgage," and other arcana even medievalists toil to comprehend.

    Magna Carta -- extorted from King John by a few dozen rebellious barons in 1215, a dead letter within three months, voided by England's feudal overlord, the Pope -- did almost nothing for almost all of England's two million people. It confirmed or created privileges for churchmen and barons, occasionally for knights, and in only two instances for "free men." Most Englishmen were villeins, not freemen. And as historian Sidney Painter has written, "Whenever provisions of the Charter seem to benefit the ordinary man, a close examination will show that it is his lord's pocketbook that is the real cause of concern." It was only a question of who would do the fleecing.

    The Great Charter has nothing to say about free speech, unreasonable searches and seizures, self-incrimination, the right to bear arms, free exercise of religion, the obligation of contracts, ex post facto laws, bills of attainder, rights of petition and assembly, excessive bail, the right to counsel, cruel and unusual punishments, indictment by grand jury, etc., etc. Far from forbidding even involuntary servitude, it presupposes it (chs. 17, 20 and 23). Far from forbidding the establishment of religion, it confirms it in its very first provision (ch. 1).

    The real Magna Carta was not even remotely libertarian. Modern libertarian notions such as self-ownership, laissez faire, greatest equal liberty, the nightwatchman (minimal) state, even private property itself would have bewildered the signatories of Magna Carta. They understood liberties, not liberty; privileges, not property. The free market was a concept of the far future: "markets" were times and places where the government authorized buying and selling. Property rights were derivative and relative. Except for the king, nobody owned real property "allodially," absolutely. Rather, title (ownership) was relative to other interests, and in theory always subordinate to the paramount claims of the king. Constitutionalists disparage legislation, but that's all Magna Carta ever was, amendable and repealable like any other statute. By 1992, only three of its 63 provisions were still on the books.

    In the guise of declaring custom, Magna Carta changed the law, violating what Constitutionalists consider the Common Law. They cherish the county, for instance, to which the sheriff was answerable (they suppose) -- but the Charter forbid sheriffs and other local officials from hearing the pleas of the Crown (ch. 24). It is as if the President of the United States issued an executive order that felonies should be tried only in federal courts!

    As for this Common Law (cue the angelic chorus here), just what is it anyway? The term has at least a half dozen meanings. It might refer to English law as distinguished from the civil-law systems of Europe. It might be "law" as distinguished from "equity," i.e., the law of the royal courts at Westminster distinguished from certain doctrines and remedies administered by a different royal appointee, the Chancellor. It might refer to judge-made rather than statutory law. Perhaps most often it refers to the law "common" to all Englishmen, the national law as opposed to the varied local laws enforced by manor and hundred courts, borough courts, and courts leet. Ironically, if there was ever a trace of truth to the Constitutionalist dogma that the people in juries "judged the facts and the law," it was in the local courts outside the Common Law. And it was the law of these courts with which ordinary Englishmen were most familiar and which, as Julius Goebel argued, most heavily influenced colonial American law.

    As if "Common Law" were not a phrase already overburdened with meanings, Constitutionalists load on even more. They equate Common Law with Natural Law, with Natural Reason, with Christianity, and with common sense. Ken Krawchuk's example is common-law marriage: "If a guy and girl live together for seven years, they're married; it's the common law. It's plain common sense." It's neither. Mere cohabitation for however long a period never married anyone in England or America. There was no such thing as nonceremonial "common law" marriage in England at all. In America, where the practice developed, such a marriage required -- not just shacking up -- but also an agreement to marry and a public reputation for being married and/or the couple holding itself out as being married. The seven-year proviso is imaginary, and it isn't common sense either. Why not six years and eleven months? Why not five years? A lot of legally solemnized marriages don't last that long these days. Since when was common sense so dogmatic?

    Constitutionalists contend that the Common Law is based on (litigation over) real property -- land. As their generalizations go, this one is not too far wrong, but it isn't easy to square it with a conception of the Common Law as universal Reason. Under Common Law, real property descended to the oldest male heir -- except in Kent, where partible inheritance among male issue prevailed, with the proviso that the youngest son inherited the household ("gavelkind"). Nowhere did land descend to any female if there lived a male heir, however remote the relationship. How is it that primogeniture is common sense everywhere in England except Kent?

    Or consider the Common Law doctrine that in marriage, husband and wife become legally one person -- and that person is the husband. If this is common sense, so is the Holy Trinity, a kindred dogma. It implies that wives have no property rights, which was very close to their legal status in England and colonial America. But libertarian it is not.

    Krawchuk has an illustrious predecessor: England's first Stuart king, the foreign-born James I. In 1607, the king announced that he would join his judges on the bench at Westminster. Common Law, he had heard, was "Natural Reason" -- as Krawchuk would say, common sense -- and he had at least as much Natural Reason as anybody! Gently but firmly, Sir Edward Coke corrected His Majesty. It was true that the Common Law was based on Natural Reason, but it was not identical with it. To expound "the Artificial Reason of the Law" required experts: judges.

    There was never any such Manichean (or Tolkienesque) war of good with evil -- of the Common Law against equity and the conciliar courts -- as the Constitutionalists believe. Over the centuries there was jurisdictional jostling, ideological antagonism between jurists trained in different legal traditions, and bitter political conflict over the scope of the royal prerogative and thus over the power of the prerogative courts. But these were not battles in a holy war. Some of it was nothing more than competition for business. Some of it settled down into a rough division of functions. Litigants didn't take sides, they exploited the confusion. Thus a plaintiff might bring an action in equity to take advantage of its "English bill" procedure providing for pretrial discovery of evidence -- and then introduce that evidence in a common-law action where the court could not have secured that evidence itself. The vast majority of Englishmen had nothing to do with these elite machinations.

    It's absurd to say, as Constitutionalists do, that equity was a summary form of procedure in which litigants had no rights. On the contrary, from at least as early as the Elizabethan period, equity was condemned for being too cumbersome and slow. For instance, instead of receiving oral testimony, depositions were taken, reduced to writing, and submitted to the court. Enormous piles of paper accumulated. Anybody who thinks equity proceeded summarily should reread Bleak House.

    If Constitutionalists are correct that courts of equity are tyrannical, obviously colonial Americans would never have set them up, and revolutionary Americans would never have countenanced them in the Constitution. But in fact, by the eighteenth century there were home-grown equity courts in New York, South Carolina and other colonies. Elsewhere in the colonies, "Common Law" courts assumed equity jurisdiction, as they've done to this day. The Constitution which the Constitutionalists would rather revere than read expressly assigns equity jurisdiction to the federal judiciary (art. III, sec. 02(1); Am. XI).

    Which brings us up to the Constitutionalist conviction that the Constitution is part of the inherited and immemorial Common Law. This poses obvious logical difficulties. If equity is not Common Law, but the Constitution includes equity, how can the Constitution be the same thing as Common Law? If Americans, once rid of British tyranny, enjoyed the Common Law in its plenitude, why did they take the trouble to adopt the Constitution? And then the Bill of Rights? How is it possible to improve upon perfection -- over and over again?

    In the fairy tale, the king had twelve beautiful daughters, each more lovely than all the rest. Constitutionalism has the Common Law, the Magna Carta and the Constitution, each replete with every excellence of all the others, and then some. The Constitution of 1787 does not even mention the Common Law (although it mentions Equity) -- perhaps out of modesty, a virtue the Common Law necessarily possesses, since it possesses them all. And then some.

    In Egyptian mythology, the god Osiris was slain by his brother Set, and his dismembered pieces were scattered far and wide. But these pieces could no more die than could immortal Osiris, although so long as they were dispersed and hidden, they were severally impotent. But once his limbs were retrieved and reassembled, mighty Osiris rose from the dead and vanquished the forces of darkness. That's how Constitutionalists regard the Common Law. Now that their treasure-hunt has turned up all the missing pieces, all Americans have to do, according to the Oklahoma Freedom Council, is get it all together and "the country would be free overnight." And they all lived happily after.

    The tragedy of Constitutionalism is that it hopes to evoke by its magic an idealized, imagined early version of the very form of society -- our own -- which was the first to banish magic from the world. With growing commerce came calculation, quantification, and the distinction of "is" from "ought." Myth is timeless, but when it comes to the performance of contracts, "time is of the essence." Money is merely a generally accepted medium of exchange, not, as Constitutionalists suppose, some sacred "Substance" -- whether it be gold, silver, paper or tobacco is a matter of convenience.

    And law is any application for the official use of coercion that succeeds. The proprietor or trader -- or even the lawyer -- is indifferent to whether his invocation of the law against a trespasser, a thief, a business rival, or a communist revolutionary owes its effectiveness to immemorial custom, legislation, the Ten Commandments, or a well-placed bribe. Myth and magic are merely tactics to try on those who believe in them. But judges don't believe in Constitutionalism and neither do very many other people.

    Nor ever will. Constitutionalism combines the worst features of superstition and reality without the attractions of either. Like real law, it's dull as dirt; unlike real law, it doesn't work. Like superstition, it's silly, self-contradictory, obscurantist and ineffectual; but it entirely lacks the poetry and pageantry which often enliven myth and faith. Very few people espouse belief-systems as complicated and crackpot as Constitutionalism without being brought up in them, which has hitherto been the fate of only an unfortunate few -- very unfortunate but happily very few.

    But the very absurdity of so-called Constitutionalism should be more alarming than amusing to lawyers. That the ideology has any acceptance at all -- and it does have some -- attests to deep and deeply conflicted popular ideas of law and lawyers. It's not news that many people look upon law as a mysterious, malignant power manipulated by an unholy priesthood of judges and lawyers. What is perhaps more newsworthy, but at least as important, is that many people -- most of them the same people -- look upon law as the foundation of social order and a fount of justice. Constitutionalists are people who experience both inclinations in exaggerated forms and simultaneously. Not surprisingly they come across as wound up to the brink of hysteria, but as caricatures, they exaggerate popular attitudes which are far more widespread than the cult of Constitutionalism itself. By perennially promising more from law than it has ever been able to deliver, jurists have helped generate the expectations whose disappointment has set the Constitutionalists on their paranoid path. And as historians of the "revolution of expectations" and sociologists of the "J-curve" have argued, this is the mentality which gives rise to revolutions.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  6. truthmover
    Administrator

    All that being said, as you support Ron Paul, I assume that we may be able to agree on many of the problems facing this country. We may not agree on the solution, but that's America. The essence of this project is non-partisan. Important facts. And yet we do express our very general values on the website. Respect for the Declaration of Independence and the First Amendment represent our cultural bias. And yet it seems that people all over the world are coming to similar conclusions about the importance of access to essential facts.

    I'm glad Ron Paul is running, and I'm happy that this might encourage people to read and better understand the Constitution. He is making the Republicans looks like they aren't Republicans, which is very true, and he has polarized the Right Wing, young against old, in such a way that would make a Democratic President more likely. I'm very curious about who all the Ron Paul supporters will choose to endorse when he is not the Republican candidate. Will they vote for Cynthia McKinney?

    Posted 17 years ago #
  7. NicholasLevis
    Member

    Oh my... after reading that brilliant essay with its spot-on humor, I looked up the writer and realized he is Bob Black, author of "The Abolition of Work" and an early hero of mine (my admiration since hedged by reports on his dishonest and litigious tendencies in dealing with people, which I have not researched enough to know about for sure either way).

    All of these are worth reading:

    http://www.spunk.org/texts/writers/black/

    Posted 17 years ago #
  8. CNT
    Member

    Here's another good piece on the Constitution.

    The Constitution as Reactionary Document

    J. Allen Smith, late Professor of Political Science at the University of Washington, wrote a pathbreaking ( 1907) critique of the Constitution as a reactionary document. Smith describes the strong democratic tendencies in America that culminated in the Declaration of Independence and the Articles of Confederation. He argues that conservative elites prepared the Constitution in order to curb the power of the people and protect the property interests of the upper class. Smith's ultimate purpose was to demonstrate that the efforts of contemporary majorities to curb corporations were justified, notwithstanding the constitutional interpretations of the courts.

    The Constitution was in form a political document, but its significance was mainly economic. There can be no question that the national government has given to the minority a greater protection than it has enjoyed anywhere else in the world, save in those countries where the minority is a specially privileged aristocracy and the right of suffrage is limited. So absolute have property rights been held by the Supreme Court, that it even, by the Dred Scott decision, in effect made the whole country a land of slavery, because the slave was property, and the rights of property were sacred. 30

    In carrying out the original intent of the Constitution with reference to property the courts have developed and applied the doctrine of vested rights--a doctrine which has been used with telling effect for the purpose of defeating democratic reforms. This doctrine briefly stated is that property rights once granted are sacred and inviolable. A rigid adherence to this policy would effectually deprive the government of the power to make the laws governing private property conform to social and economic changes. It would disregard the fact that vested rights are often vested wrongs, and that one important, if not indeed the most important, task which a government by and for the people has to perform is to rectify past mistakes and correct the evils growing out of corruption and class rule. A government without authority to interfere with vested rights would have little power to promote the general welfare through legislation.

    The adoption of the Constitution brought this doctrine from the realm of political speculation into the arena of practical politics. The men who framed and set up our Federal government were shrewd enough to see that if the interests of the property-holding classes were to be given effective protection, it was necessary that political power should rest ultimately upon a class basis. This they expected to accomplish largely through the judicial veto and the power and influence of the Supreme Court. The effect of establishing the supremacy of this branch of the government was to make the legal profession virtually a ruling class. To their charge was committed under our system of government the final authority in all matters of legislation. They largely represent by virtue of their training and by reason of the interests with which they are affiliated, the conservative as opposed to the democratic influences. The power and influence exerted by lawyers in this country are the natural outgrowth of the constitutional position of our Supreme Court. Its supremacy is in the last analysis the supremacy of lawyers as a class and through them of the various interests which they represent and from which they derive their support. This explains the fact so often commented on by foreign critics, that in this country lawyers exert a predominant influence in political matters.

    --

    On the other hand American constitutional and legal literature still inculcates and keeps alive fear and distrust of majority rule. The official and ruling class in this country has been profoundly influenced by political ideas which have long been discarded in the countries which have made the most rapid strides in the direction of popular government. The influence which our constitutional and legal literature, based as it is upon a profound distrust of majority rule, has had upon the lawyers, politicians, and public men of this country can hardly be overestimated. It is true that many who have been most influenced by this spirit of distrust toward popular government would be unwilling to admit that they are opposed to majority rule--in fact, they may regard themselves as sincere believers in democracy. This is not to be wondered at when we consider that throughout our history under the Constitution the old and the new have been systematically jumbled in our political literature. In fact, the main effort of our constitutional writers would appear to be to give to the undemocratic eighteenth-century political ideas a garb and setting that would in a measure reconcile them with the democratic point of view. The natural and inevitable result has followed. The students of American political literature have imbibed the fundamental idea of the old system--its distrust of majority rule--along with a certain sentimental attachment to and acceptance of the outward forms of democracy. This irreconcilable contradiction between the form and the substance, the body and the spirit of our political institutions is not generally recognized even by the American students of government. Constitutional writers have been too much preoccupied with the thought of defending and glorifying the work of the fathers and not enough interested in disclosing its true relation to present-day thought and tendencies. As a consequence of this, the political ideas of our education classes represent a curious admixture of democratic beliefs superimposed upon a hardly conscious substratum of eighteenth-century doctrines. It is this contradiction in our thinking that has been one of our chief sources of difficulty in dealing with political problems. While honestly believing that we have been endeavoring to make democracy a success, we have at the same time tenaciously held on to the essential features of a political system designed for the purpose of defeating the ends of popular government.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  9. Lark
    Member

    Thank you for the nice welcome! Somehow, I actually feel it - and I'm grateful.

    As for "radical honesty", I've defined it in my own way. On another day... at another time... it's likely I might define it differently altogether. And I've never read much of Blanton - that I care to remember - besides.

    Outside my own skin, I do not accept any man's ideas... or ideas in general... to be sufficient reason or justification... for how to organize my thinking... or my life - including the ideas of freedom, truth... or the man, Ron Paul.

    Privately, and in all honesty, I sense that truth is non-existent. And truth emanating from language has this insidious way of forcing expansive thought patterns inside a constrictive square box... called clarity... meaning... or definition.

    Last year I read "The Guru Papers: Masks of Authoritarian Power" - a book about truth-seeking and self-deception. A bit wordy and all, but very much a thrilling read!

    Now 53, at 17 I'd read "None Dare Call it Conspiracy"... and this book crystallized for me... what I long suspected as being the truth... about the socio-political and economic... authoritarian world... I had found myself.

    http://reactor-core.org/none-dare.html

    Like a lot of my peers, my earliest political hero was JFK... and his assassination took place when I was 9... while I was living in Japan as an Air Force brat. No-one needed to tell me... one person, and one person acting alone... was responsible for his murder - even then I knew this was a lie - which is why, from that catalyzing event forward, I never trusted anybody to deliver for me... the truth... the whole truth... and nothing but the truth.

    http://www.geocities.com/verisimus101/wcr/nixon-bu...

    It was those evil Birchers who ran the full-page ad in the Dallas Morning News... calling JFK a traitor... that sticks in my mind as my earliest recollection of "those guys" some of you have cited as supportive of Paul.

    My goodness, could adults really lie or stretch the truth? It wasn't so long ago before that I'd finally given up believing in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy!

    http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2005/cr11...

    Then, at 19, I discovered Alan Watts, a famous author and comparative religion professor at UC-Berkley. From that moment on, I knew I had been victimized by: (1) language, (2) false beliefs, and (3) authoritarian constructs... not of my personal creation.

    I came to see that true freedom meant I could engage the realities of this world in any damn manner as I chose... which suited me best.

    And I accepted the fact that I'd always be guided by pleasure - no matter what! Until such time as I felt perfectly at ease... with myself... and my surroundings... I would always yearn to be free... of everything else.

    And so can you. But it's a battle that never ends... so long as you're not free from all the baggage... forced down your throat by others... audacious enough to believe they know better than you... about how to live your life.

    Mindfulness sees to it... that we're engaged... and fighting for our rights... in the here-and-now. And my cognitive abilities are no better... or worse... than yours.

    This is why I can't claim to be superior... in any way... to any of you. To deign it in my power to coerce you ... whatsoever... is counterproductive to my purpose for being here. For on one side I see influence and persuasion; and on the other I see force, even violent force. As all are varying degrees of coercion, all are anathema to the principles of freedom.

    I would also be foolish to believe myself - more or less - as smarter or dumber than you. To engage in such destructive, insane thinking... borne of a never-ending circular argument... seems ludicrous!

    As Dr. Paul says, we obtain our rights as individuals; not as members of a collectivist group. To prey upon another man's neuroses is flat out wrong. It's antithetical to the Golden Rule. And it diminishes us.

    Thus, so it goes: One man's freedom is another man's oppression. One man's truth is another man's lie. One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. One man's reason... is exposed for its emptiness... by another...

    ... And Ron Paul, for all his shortcomings, is far and away the only presidential candidate who understands this... in addition to being respectful... of certain inviolate rules of law - at least as I see it.

    Laws mean nothing if free men cannot justify them... or abide by them. They cannot be conjured up... and arbitrarily applied... if free men are to universally obey them either.

    When things get dangerously out-of-whack, and as we've labeled ourselves Americans, we must come together as free men, or we'll all be doomed... to a life of tyranny.

    Because America is supposed to be a principled nation of laws, not of fallible men, I reasoned I must have been forgetful... or suckered... once again.

    http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2006/3332morgan_c...

    I voted for Gore and Kerry in 2000 and 2004. Bush had been the Texas governor before that; and I knew I didn't trust him. So, justice served up by the courts, nor democracy, gave me much of a say-so then, did it?

    Who really controls America? What's happening to us? Have our leaders been compromised? Have we finally gone broke?

    Ever since 9/11... I finally figured it out... through my investigations online. Government had become a meddlesome stone in my shoe. Our monetary system was based on a fraud; and manipulative supra-capitalist agents... controlled the MSM... our federal government... our funny money... even you and me.

    Government was getting out-of-control and way too big for its breeches - that's what was happening!

    And our Constitution never once called for a democracy. At the federal level - the central planning authority [sic] - government was meant to be one of the least coercive in all of human history. With its ingenious system of checks and balances, it was established solely to protect our rights as free men.

    more government = less freedom | less government = more freedom

    It was to be based on voluntary contracts between all its citizens. The federal government was to remain as small as possible... defend our liberties... promote domestic tranquility... and coin our money... period!

    And outside the rule of law, the central government was not designed to legislate fairness if it was inconsistent with the Constitutional Republican form of governance our founders created... and to which all our elected representatives... swear an allegiance to... uphold... protect... and defend.

    Somewhere along the line... local government - that government closest to the people - was to serve the people too.

    All men are created equal before that law of primacy stated in our Constitution. Private property could be owned - so long as one citizen's property rights didn't infringe on another's.

    This just theory of man-made law alone should be all we need to clean up and protect our natural environment, for instance. It just takes re-reading the Constitution and the Bill of Rights for us to put it into law.

    How many giant corporations could legally corrupt our government institutions...or despoil our natural environment... then?

    The legal theory of corporate personhood needs to be re-examined by our courts. The welfare-police state and the issues surrounding entangling foreign alliances need to be revisited - everything we have in place needs to be shrunken down to a more manageable size. The state must be prevented from taking a dollar from you... to give to another... because mob rule means... might makes right.

    By welfare, I mean corporate welfare too. It's no wonder corporatism has favored the multi-national corporate interests over mine and yours - an egregious unconstitutional act, if there ever was one!

    How many lobbyists representing special or corporate interests - for 20 years in Congress - have been able to get to Ron Paul? (All part of the historic and Congressional record, I might add.)

    Our present story is the story of how ultimate tyranny works it's way into our government, takes total control of it, and robs us of the free country we think we still live in. It's what happened when free men looked the other way... when the 16th Amendment permitted the creation of a fiat currency... backed up by predatory fractional reserve lending practices... which unlawfully enriched these "money-changers"... by letting them create fictitious money out of thin air... and then earned them usury interest... while they also collected hefty fees from it... and it was these criminal acts... which were illegally enacted into law.

    They loan out this “play money” to individuals, corporations and governments – many times supplying all sides... during times of conflict... and cruel, unjust wars.

    All in all, a pretty profitable business, if you can get it – wouldn’t you say? Not to mention, the illegal and unequal apportionment of a direct federal income tax... on the fruits of the people's labor... to pay for the interest payments to the Fed... these profligate representatives... like to authorize... in our names.

    Today, we call the IRS - the federal agency which can literally steal everything you've got - and its indecipherable tax code, nothing more than a ploy to redistribute wealth... from the poor and middle classes... to those at the top.

    With these internationalist fat cats left in charge, the monopolistic impulses of a relative few greedy men will have stolen away... our very hearts... forever. Like the story of the froggie in the pot... of cold water... slowly being boiled to death... the people and its representatives... can be enslaved... then murdered... by our own stupid ig-nore-ance... of the reality... closest at hand... nearest our faces.

    In a culture where greed is good, and mindless consumerism runs rampant, corruption has penetrated the very fabric of our whole society. When the government is giving away the goodies, how many of us get left out in the cold - and why do we not see a threat from all this?

    So whatever you may think of Paul... imperfect fellow that he is... he's the only prominent politician on the scene today... who speaks to the fundamental crux... of most all our societal problems. In my lifetime, he's the only one who ever ran for President... from a major political party... who ever spoke truth to power.

    We've strayed too far from the legal authority permissible by our federal government under the Constitution. We've allowed a handful of elected representatives - especially dating back to the years 1913 to 1916 - to cede control of our monetary system... and devalue its currency... to profit-driven private banking interests. And these same private corporate financial interests - including those who tend to cluster around them - now control us.

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5232639329...

    My friends, we're being hornswoggled... left apathetic... befuddled... and we're being robbed... every single day! The results wrought... from these shenanigans... by these same central bankers... is called inflation - but in sum and effect, at least as it pertains to you and me, it's little more than a tax upon us all.

    What might be in their game plan next - first, the world... then us? Or is it the other way around? These criminals have fattened themselves… preying upon we, the people… quite long enough. We have become the enablers... for a synarcho-capitalist juggernaut... riding the next big wave of empire... on our collective backs.

    If, as patriotic Americans, we let this great crime... go unnoticed... and do nothing... we will have weakened our liberties to such an extent... we may never rise up again. A plutocracy... will have forced itself upon us... and one-world totalitarianism - never mind if it is of the Left or the Right - will rule our remaining days... for years to come.

    And the union of modern technology and command-and-control doctrine will have laid its final trap.

    http://www.dallasforronpaul.org/?p=16#more-16 http://www.scl.cc/home.php [technology + big media control = big-time license to steal]

    Of course, I'll grant you Paul is no progressive; but he just might be what the family doctor ordered... when saving us from ourselves... seems to be the tallest order... of this day... or any other day.

    For our lives intertwined are just one long series of orchestrated events. And it's never been fair; nor will it ever be fair. After all, accidents in history are a rarity... when compared with... planned or staged... events.

    So please take notice - and do take care. Thanks for reading!

    P.S. - I've swiped every word written here from someone else. And many others have said it better.:)

    http://www.trueworldhistory.info/ http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2007/cbarchive_20... http://lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracke... http://americanendeavor.blogspot.com/2007/10/corru... http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=vie... http://www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net/index.html http://stevenjm.netfirms.com/DoesAmericaWantSocial... http://www.policestateplanning.com/ http://msms2.blogspot.com/2007/03/attention-econom... http://www.cephas-library.com/nwo/ http://www.cephas-library.com/nwo/federal_reserve_... http://www.cephas-library.com/nwo/nwo_CFR_apostles... http://forum.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=mess... http://www.carbonweb.org/showitem.asp?article=58&#... http://judicial-inc.biz/False_Flags_summary.htm http://judicial-inc.biz/Nuclear_attacks_on_america...

    Posted 17 years ago #
  10. truthmover
    Administrator

    Wow

    The only reason why Ron Paul is on topic at this forum, and that's important here, is due to the fact that many here are critical of people and organizations in the 9/11 truth movement that promote 9/11 truth alongside partisan politics. For further info, see our forum guidelines.

    We saw people passing out and wearing Ron Paul buttons during the silent 9/11 truth vigil at Ground Zero this year. A local fire fighter who supports our skepticism thought that this was appalling. I knew that is was more naive that malicious, but who's handing out excuses? The damage was done.

    The majority of the public in this country has voted for the Democratic candidate in the last two elections. The same will be true in 2008. Ron Paul is a Republican. He has no chance of garnering the support of the majority. As I said, I think his candidacy raises important issues about what it is to be conservative in this country.

    But once again, where does this lead? When Ron Paul is not in the running, what next?

    Posted 17 years ago #
  11. Victronix
    Member

    He has no chance of garnering the support of the majority.

    With an unlimited black ops budget, any meaningful voice of reason would be assassinated upon garnering the support of the majority. I don't consider RP a voice of reason on most issues, but this is general rule that such a voice will be quickly put down, be it with an easy media prank using a microphone, a plane crash or something else. The slow development of a mass movement is difficult to stop with such efforts, but "leaders" can be quickly done away with for the purposes of elections.

    Blacks didn't get the right to vote by voting.

    The issue, to me, is mainly one of two efforts - either reforming the Ds from within, or creating a mass movement from without. We need to have both of those efforts moving forward at the same time and not attack each other for taking different paths toward the same goal.

    RP favors prayer in schools. That's the opposite of the constitution. A unique aspect of the creation of this nation different from the creation of all other nations before it was the separation of church and state.

    Thanks for the above essay by Black. Informative.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  12. The issue, to me, is mainly one of two efforts - either reforming the Ds from within, or creating a mass movement from without.

    I, for one, don't think that a lot of these so called D's are even able to reform as we so want to see. A lot of them are just as tied up with, bought, and sold by the corruption and corporations as a lot of these R's. In my view, our most reliable remedy is "creating mass movement from without." However, if the 9/11 truth movement is only an example of how complex and complicated this is going to be, we have quite a bit of work to do.

    I think that the progressives have the most potential to bring forth the change and mass movement that is needed here.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  13. Lark
    Member

    Clarence Page, the syndicated print media columnist for the Chicago Tribune, not long ago likened Paul supporters... seeking consensus of opinion... to the herding of feral cats. And in my experience this certainly seems to be the case.

    The truth about 9/11 is just one of many lies covered-up by authoritarian figureheads in this country. It is no accident it was intended to be a watershed moment in the history of our Republic... for it presents before us... glaring and bare... the imminent dangers we're all expecting to face - coming soon... to a neighborhood near you.

    Many feel we're too conditioned by overt manipulation and deliberate scare tactics... and a rallying force is needed... if decent honorable people are to coalesce around some kind of meaningful action...

    ... To protect ourselves in the event of an emergency... we neither welcomed or needed.

    Dr. Paul's message has struck a chord of defiance in the populace... and a sense of urgency has taken hold... to ward off complacency and general apathy... among those too stubborn or blind to see what we see as the truth.

    The lies and distortions of our elected officials in government... and their big media co-conspirators... have created a sense of outrage and discomfit. But these people too... are being manipulated... to suit the larger purposes... of their paymasters. Whether we believe it or not, the leaders of our nation, Britain and Israel have become the real terrorists on the world stage today...

    ... Because, in their collective wisdom, they've chosen to disregard the will of the people in favor of militarist policies which are dangerous and foolhardy.

    Terrorists... freedom fighters... Big Brother - whatever we term these actors, there leaves little doubt that much is amiss in our country. We're standing at the crossroads between a grand-scale economic meltdown of the capitalist system and losing out to the forces of totalitarianism. An expectation of doom-and-gloom is in the air. And I've witnessed a tremendous outpouring of support for anyone who will lead the people and face down our oppressors.

    To think of Paul's supporters as little more than a bunch of reckless techies and obnoxious pimply-faced twenty-and-thirty-somethings would be to deny him the reality of a broad coalition of ardent supporters he's actually attracted to his campaign. I dare say, if one is getting their news about current events and other information from the MSM - in any way, shape, or fashion - all pretense concerning the uncovering of truth has been willfully abandoned.

    You mustn't confuse the antics of his coltish supporters with Ron Paul himself. I've befriended one of his sons, seen and heard this man up-front and personal-like. I've interacted with countless young and middle-aged professionals who are extraordinarily well-informed and not given to making decisions for their lives foolishly. These folks are hardly kooky at all; and Paul's as genuine as they come.

    I suspect his message will not die with this campaign either - no matter the outcome of this upcoming election. We have reached a tipping point... in the consciousness of a nation... in peril. So don't be too surprised by his ascendancy. His supporters, as you have seen, are driven.

    The spark of freedom has lit a wildfire. For all those brave souls seeking of the truth - no matter how this election drama plays out - Ron Paul has inspired a huge contingent of freedom-loving Americans to take control of their lives again...

    ... In ways most of them... heretofore... might never have imagined... would become necessary... so soon.

    I've made a conscious decision to never place myself in the position of having to choose between the lesser of two evils if I didn't have to - at least, insofar as electoral politics is concerned. Therefore, if Paul isn't elected, I'll continue preparing for the worst...

    ... And more-than-likely sit this one out. All the top-tier candidates from both parties are closet socialists, bought-and-paid-for by the globalists who finance their campaigns - this much is out in the open for everyone to see... that gives a damn, that is.

    Look out for yourself and those you care most about. This simple truth is often all that really matters in life anyway. And... you know what they say... oftentimes... "the truth will set you free."

    My greatest passion in life has always been to share in the joys of community interaction. I'm less of the strident political junkie some might presume; and, much more lately, do I still secretly fancy myself the "poet with fire and herbs" I once was branded.

    A long-time student of culinary art - for twenty or so of my years, professionally engaged - I saw clearly from that perspective the need for a greater awareness of what poor planning has... not only done to ruin our environment... but how it has also harmed... all aspects... of our way of life.

    Aside from being a Ron Paul "weirdo"... I believe sustainability and cooperation can never be achieved on this planet...unless and until... we relearn the principles of self-reliance again. How these ideas are applied to every inter-disciplinary field of human endeavor... are critical to our very survival... and everyday peace-of-mind.

    And without recognizing the truest form of freedom for the individual as essential, we sacrifice ourselves to tyrannical groupthink.

    If I had my druthers, I'd rather not be a businessperson. IMHO... business... as it's practiced in the world today... truly sucks. But nor do I believe a meritocracy within a socialist framework could ever take its place either.

    Though I personally tend to view this political discussion as topical and important - particularly in light of its immediacy requiring remedial action - I'd much rather discuss food, air, water and energy...

    ... In the context of some of the newer ideas of so-called natural capitalism. The phenomenon of the 2000-mile Caesar salad deserves more focused attention.

    Having spent some time reviewing your forum guidelines and such, perhaps I'm out of step with what you hope to accomplish for your readership. Perhaps not.

    I'll happily explore some other threads.

    Posted 17 years ago #

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