TruthMove would have been honored to be included in the infamous Tarpley KW COINTELPRO list or this cartoon. But I think it best to remind people again not to get caught up in Nico's mashups and all this inter-movement drama.
The cartoon is very strange indeed. I've never seen anything like this in the movement before.
Casseia -
i went through a very similar situation a few months ago when a certain story ran in the NY Post regarding Haupt and Siegel. Videos surfaced claiming i was a violent stalker - including my home address!! comments on the YouTube board included calls for acid to be thrown in my face and execution. and - as you know - videos continue to surface accusing me of being a member of Al Qaeda. all of these were reported to law enforcement and my legal representatives.
if you would like to combat this you can send a fax to YouTube (or whatever video website it is on) demanding that the film be pulled. these websites do have standards that they will enforce at the first whiff of legally actionable material. many of these videos violate their standards on multiple levels.
but may i ask a question?
we all know TruthMove to be a forum where issues can calmly be discussed. it is not my intention to trigger a flame war - but i think the question is legitimate.
Jon Gold recently posted a series of links to a website wtcdemolition.com in which he appears to be the victim of very similar tactics of character assassination and baseless accusations that he is a zionist agent, member of the JDL, paid by Larry Silverstein, etc etc. YOu appear to be a regular supporter and contributor to that forum - as well as a supporter of many of these allegations.
I am just curious what differentiates wtcdemolitions from the very same sorts of baseless attacks you are now enduring from Haupt? how is it any different?
Jon Gold is a rather well-respected activist who you may not agree with on many issues - but - when disagreements conflate into baseless accusations and character assassination - is this not exactly what Haupt does?
and lastly - how do we fix this? can you give us a legitimate reason why you should NOT rememdy this situation and apologize to Gold?
TruthMod: "But I think it best to remind people again not to get caught up in Nico's mashups and all this inter-movement drama."
I disagree. How much of our personal safety and privacy must we forfeit before acknowledging that this is a problem that - left unchallenged - may compromise the personal safety of members of our community?
One of the videos in question was accompanied by calls for acid to be thrown in my face. there were calls for me to be hunted down and executed. I have screen shots and the original video to prove it.
i actually think this is a much more serious problem than any of us are acknowledging. the attacks are becoming much more sinister, dark and threatening - and i continue to grow frustrated by the 'ignore it' chorus of activists.
Very important statement there JohnA. We need united defense against this COINTELPRO-style disruption that this movement is now undergoing.
Personally, I have been getting about 3-5 emails from Tarpley per day filled with utter nonsense. It seems like he's spiraling out of control.... In fact, there seems to be a deliberate attempt underway at drowning our movement with insane disrupters, erroneous info, a darkened image, complete with diversion and infighting tactics. We need a national conference put together soon to deal with these awfully important issues effecting our movement.
i actually think this is a much more serious problem than any of us are acknowledging. the attacks are becoming much more sinister, dark and threatening - and i continue to grow frustrated by the 'ignore it' chorus of activists.
I think the problem is turning into an epidemic. How many more scholars for 9/11 truth breakups or KW fiascos do we need to endure before we find a way to stop our movement from being marginalized by disrupters? The 9/11 cover-up continues, it is being aided (intentionally or otherwise) by disinformation, divisive events, and ad-hominem attacks. Why should we stay silent or tolerate this behavior? If someone is attacking the credibility of the 9/11 truth movement, then why shouldn't we fight back in the most constructive manner?
If we can deal with this problem in a constructive manner that avoids unnecessary divisiveness (i.e. refusing to be baited by insults, accusations, and personal attacks), how can it not make the 9/11 truth movement stronger and more resistant to sabotage? If the intended targets do not engage in the same abusive language of the attackers, it will help prevent destructive infighting from spreading to those who are not "intentionally" involved in the controversy.
There are different strategies that should all be used:
When it comes to the "demolition" website, I choose #2. I have been attacked on this site (for the Pentagon, for talking about disinformation, etc); it is pointless to respond to personal commentary that is not constructive, or even worth reading. In my opinion, it seems likely that certain bloggers and activists are being targeted with divisive commentary. Obviously, I can't prove this, and some could just be airing their complaints, but I believe it is an intentional strategy to cause divisiveness and division. This is one of the core aims of CoIntelPro. Let's not do the dirty work of the CoIntelPro agents for them.
Photo of the Day: Brainwashed 911 "truth" cultists parrot stale limited-hangout distractions and meaningless slogans
http://www.falseflagnews.com/node/115
This picture encapsulates everything that's wrong with the typical 9-11 conspiracy lemmings and losers, who are completely useless, and in fact, counterproductive to progress. It's a self-contained pyramid scheme psy-op now, with ignorant followers resorting to pathetic street recruiting like Hari Krishnas, attempting to wake up people to "the truth" (which is about as deep as their idiotic bumper sticker slogans). If anything, these 911 cultists are lost souls who deserve pity.
DL supports the KW and is a Tarpley follower
"Those who seek to discredit the Kennebunkport warning exhibit a devastatingly tragic myopia (or worse), as they selfishly attempt to engineer a divisive conflict entirely of their own creation, while foolishly ignoring the material substance of the document." Dan Abrahamson, False Flag News
That's a shame. I used to like Daniel. Oh well. In the forgotten bin he goes.
Although I kind of made that decision after he interviewed Nico.
"can you give us a legitimate reason why you should NOT rememdy this situation and apologize to Gold?"
I don't want her to apologize. Apologies in this movement mean absolutely nothing. When I was asked to apologize to casseia for sending her an angry email asking if she "burned any jews lately" (for her obvious defense of a Holocaust Denier, and after being one of the biggest proponents of the "Get Eric Williams out of the Arizona Conference" brigade), I did so. Did it mean anything to casseia? Nope, because she STILL continued to attack me, and still condoned others attacking me as well. So don't worry casseia, you don't have to feel pressured into apologizing to me even though it's beyond justified. I won't accept it.
Arabesque... FYI.
http://www.wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/382#comment...
"I have an inkling that both Gold & Arabesque are about trying to stay influential in the 9/11 movement but at the same time trying to steer things into more of a LIHOP direction, they almost seem like planted damage control agents. I think that whoever is behind 9/11 would definitely prefer dealing with some of the LIHOP options versus the MIHOP options. Circumstantial evidence would be much easier for them to discredit than direct physical evidence. Both Gold & Arabesque push the circumstantial over the physical, which makes me question their motives. They also seem to try to walk the tightrope of staying in the game of influence and creating misdirection.
They both regurgitate out the same LIHOP stuff every month or so. For Gold its Pakistan, Sibel Edmonds, victims families, etc. For Arabesque its pushing out his library of Pentagon witness statements to back up the "Official" story. With all of the different types of circumstantial evidence there is, why do they limit themselves to things that seem to help the "Official" story. This is the kind of stuff the perps want us to look at. They know they can deal with circumstantial if they have to. All they have to do is manufacture more "circumstantial" evidence that lessens their accountability.
The perps are having a harder time trying to massage the physical evidence, which makes me wonder about "truthers" who don't see value in physical evidence. "
Mr. "real truther" has attacked me as an "agent" in the past and I personally consider him to belong to the "agent provocateur" mindset. There is a reason why he was banned from 911blogger, and it wasn't to do with good behavior. It was for starting fights.
That's why I ignore him.
When I read shit like, "They both regurgitate out the same LIHOP stuff every month or so. For Gold its Pakistan, Sibel Edmonds, victims families, etc. For Arabesque its pushing out his library of Pentagon witness statements to back up the "Official" story."
I think whomever wrote this either has no idea what they're talking about, and instead, relies on the "propaganda" from the people who talk about me, or that it's one of those people that are spreading the "propaganda". Anyone that has closely followed my work knows that on SEVERAL occasions I have made arguments for complicity. My speech in Arizona was called, "They Would Never" which specifically tackles that issue. If you watch the Press For Truth Screening in Cherry Hill, I openly argue against "incompetence" with Rory O'Connor. I have about 1000 or so more references for this. Also, the usage of the term "LIHOP" as if to say the quality of my work is crap further illustrates the idea that the terms LIHOP and MIHOP are nothing more than divisive bs. As for the idea that all I promote is Pakistan, Sibel Edmonds, and the families...
Pakistan's involvement in the 9/11 attacks has been covered up. It has not been resolved. Therefore, it is still a relevant issue. Sibel Edmonds' issue has also not been resolved. Therefore, it is still a relevant issue. On top of that, her allegations, at least to me, are explosive. Someone that says, "once this issue [9/11] gets to be investigated, you're going to be seeing certain American officials standing trial and facing prosecution criminally" certainly has my attention, and should have others as well. Besides these arguments, to think that all I have posted about is Pakistan and Sibel Edmonds is ABSURD. That probably accounts for 5% of my posts. As for my focus on the families...
I don't think I have to explain myself for that.
To even think my support of the family members, and the first responders is "detrimental" to the movement, at least to me, is absolutely ridiculous. People have been mad at the Jersey Girls for a long time because they never said the magic words, "9/11 was an inside job." Admittedly, there was a time when I was less than happy about that as well. However, I have since learned from talking to them that they have the same fears we do. They just go about it differently, and now that I know better, their way was probably the best way to go.
Exactly.
Part of what makes the provocateur effective is that they distort you actual position (straw-man). It's to get you mad and defensive so that you will fight with them. When that fails they resort to sarcasm, ad-hominem, ridicule and other baiting tricks.
Anyone who has seen me on 911blogger will know that I have pushed controlled demolition as hard as anyone. The provocateur relies on the divisive issues. They are not interested in unity or agreement, they are interested in disagreement and personal battles.
Saying I support the "official story" at the Pentagon is another example of straw-man to create divisiveness. I don't support the official story because the official story is absurd enough as it is with a 757! No interception in two hours? Hanni Hanjour, who never flew the plane before? The Pentagon hit by a plane on the ground floor? No interception?
That's how disinformation works--subtlety is gone, and you are attacked for positions that you don't even have. The question is whether it's done intentionally or not, and you really can't tell. The person distorting your position could really just be an "asshole" as one person called me recently, moron, or deliberate CoIntelPro sponsored agent provocateur.
In the end all that matters, it that this is a complete waste of my time to respond to.
"I don't support the official story because the official story is absurd enough as it is with a 757!"
:)
http://www.yourbbsucks.com/forum/JonGoldSmall.mp3
Listen to this interview of me. You might like it.
BTW... that Sibel quote isn't verbatim. It's more of a combination of two quotes.
Incidentally, if Pakistan was set up as a "patsy" to take the fall for 9/11 (hence the nickname, "Patsystan"), then why hasn't the United States used Pakistan's ties to 9/11 against them? They've instead, covered it up, and rewarded them with $10B in aid.
"They both regurgitate out the same LIHOP stuff every month or so. For Gold its Pakistan, Sibel Edmonds, victims families, etc. For Arabesque its pushing out his library of Pentagon witness statements to back up the "Official" story."
We hope to make this attitude irrelevant. Just let all the people who think this way have each other and sink their own boat with irresponsibility and divisiveness. It's time to move forward.
At first I didn't understand the ISI connection, but it makes sense when you realize that Al-Qaeda is an invention of the US government. Who created Osama Bin Laden in the first place? The CIA and the ISI. So why wouldn't the ISI be relevant for investigation for the events of 9/11? The "terrorists" trained on US military bases. Anyone who believes that this is "incompetence" or not worth investigating is... well I was tempted to use an ad-hominem here, but I'll refrain... (:
We hope to make this attitude irrelevant. Just let all the people who think this way have each other and sink their own boat with irresponsibility and divisiveness. It's time to move forward.
It is irrelevant. That's the whole problem.
"and still condoned others attacking me as well"
I love how things become plural. Private message(s)... deleting thread(s)
Gotcha. For the definition of an ad hominem argument, Arabesque just happens to find the perfect source in a site defending the official holocaust narrative.
Great.
BTW, Albanese has decided that exposing disinfo is "immature" and says that he will not be finishing his movie on the subject. (This is from an interview that is the soundtrack for yet another of those freaky psy-op videos.) He just wants people to leave him alone online.
Is this true? Maybe we could get the answer privately? The disinfo film expose really does need to come out...
Hilarious.
Now, who would take such offense at an essay saying that we should be civil to each other?
From "real truther"
kiss my divisive ass, you friggin' shill! [...]
Gotcha. For the definition of an ad hominem argument, Arabesque just happens to find the perfect source in a site defending the official holocaust narrative.
Ouch.
Did I mention that agent provocateurs like to highlight controversial issues?
Mr. Albanese can best speak as to why he is not releasing his video.
Did I mention that agent provocateurs like to highlight controversial issues?
I was working with a life member of the ASCE on a formal rebuttal of Bazant's paper, so I started asking about the evidence for explosions in the basement of the WTC. That resulted in my being accused of "raising controversial issues". The fallout from that accusation pretty much derailed our efforts. I guess we better not talk about 9/11, seeing as how it's controversial, and all.
Quite honestly, the disinfo pirates have succeeded with me. I've stopped sharing my ideas and findings with others. Now all I do is talk about disinfo.
Thanks for the link above and the summary of the issue in "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions" by Thomas Kuhn -- great, I hadn't seen that.
In his essay Science and the Beautiful, Werner Heisenberg quotes from Johannes Kepler's Harmonice mundi
"That faculty which perceives and recognizes the noble proportions in what is given to the senses, and in other things situated outside itself, must be ascribed to the soul. It lies very close to the faculty which supplies formal schemata to the senses, or deeper still, and thus adjacent to the purely vital power of the soul, which does not think discursively, i.e., in conclusions, as the philosophers do, and employs no considered method, and is thus not peculiar only to man, but also dwells in wild animals and the dear beasts of the field. ... Now it might be asked how this faculty of the soul, which does not engage in conceptual thinking, and can therefore have no proper knowledge of harmonic relations, should be capable of recognizing what is given in the outside world. For to recognize is to compare the sense perception outside with the original pictures inside, and to judge that it conforms to them. Proclus has expressed the matter very finely in his simile of awakening, as from a dream. For just as the sensorily presented things in the outer world recall to us those which we formerly perceived in the dream, so also the mathematical relations given in sensibility call forth those intelligible archetypes which were already given inwardly beforehand, so that they now shine fort truly and vividly in the soul, where before they were only obscurly present there. But how have they come to be within? To this I answer that all pure ideas or archtypical patterns of harmony, such as we were speaking of, are inherently present in those who are capable of apprehending them. But they are not first received into the mind by a conceptual process, being the product, rather, of a sort of instinctive intuition of pure quantity, and are innate in these individuals, just as the number of petals in a plant, say, is inate in the form principle, or the number of its seed chambers is innate in the apple."
"Geometria est archetypus pulchritudinis mundi" - Johannes Kepler
"Philosophy is written in this grand book - the universe - which stands continuously open to our gaze. But the book cannot be understood unless one first learns to comprehend the language and interpret the characters in which it is written. It is written in the language of mathematics, and its characters are triangles, circles, and other geometrical figures, without which it is humanly impossible to understand a single word of it; without these one is wandering about in a dark labyrinth." - Galileo Galilei
"E pur si muove" - Galileo Galilei
"Some things take so long But how do I explain When not too many people Can see we're all the same And because of all their tears Your eyes can't hope to see The beauty that surrounds them Now, isn't it a pity" - George Harrison
How does one hide light in the darkness?
You must log in to post.