Forum

TruthMove Forum

TruthMove Forum » TruthMove Main Forum

A potential response to all this mess - Framework already in place. (16 posts)

  1. truthmover
    Administrator

    A while back we started working on a '9/11 Claims' (working title) project that we shelved for a while, in which we developed a website format for presenting claims made within the movement, summarizing the evidence for and against, and giving each a rating as to how well supported it was based on that evidence. This was meant to include items such as 'A missile hit the pentagon', "The Jews did 9/11", and would now include the Kennebunkport Warning.

    In the creation of that project, we didn't think for a second about whether it would be viewed as PC, or possibly rub a a few people the wrong way. For this to be an honest movement, we all just need to do our best to responsibly call it like we see it. TruthMove is fiercely independent in our adherence to principle before association. Rational critique is the engine of science. We hope for as much critique as we have to offer. We hope for mutual development. Others do not. Here we see "academics" not behaving scientifically. Experts who use insults. Intellectuals who advance fallacy.

    We felt that this 'Claims' project might be the most positive response we could have to exactly the same problem we faced many months ago. It avoids pointing the finger at people and rather draws attention to the veracity of their statements. It allows the viewer to examine for themselves the available evidence for and against any claim. Like our site, its basically just summaries and links.

    So what can we do about this problem we have been facing? Face it together. Unify around a project dedicated to making a clear and rational distinction between that which is and is not well founded in our movement. As far as I can tell, this is the high road to take, and yet maybe bold enough to be effective. We all realize that we have to try something new here. We've been banging our heads up against this for too long in the same manner.

    So here's the vision. We get this up, with most of the major MSM claims, divisive hypothetical claims such as DEW use, and raw speculation like the Kennebunkport Warning. We should also include the top well founded 'claims' as well for education and contrast. Once again, this isn't Arabesque vs. Tarpley, as Tarpley would have it. This is fact vs. fallacy.

    The project could include the participation of those concerned before its launch, and the endorsement of those willing after. And if enough people helped us make it really solid and unified around promoting the project, it might just become a popular beacon of rationality in our movement. All due respect to many people for laying the ground work for something like this. There would be many links to their websites. But we need something summary that makes it easy for the average person just getting into 9/11 truth to easily engage with this information.

    So, that's one fairly well developed option for you. People would retreat from this concept for the reason that it may create some controversy within the movement. But by principle before association, I would argue that we who so clearly recognize these distinctions between fact and fallacy have a responsibility before our responsibility to the movement, to stand up for the facts.

    The ultimate theme here is finally that we must unify around promoting the facts as well as refuting the fallacies. We are defending the rational character of the movement as we have for so long. We all recognize the problem. The missing element is some measure of unity around our mutual concerns, and then wide public exposure. We have to be better promoters of our cause than those who attack us.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  2. Arabesque
    Member

    I would argue that we who so clearly recognize these distinctions between fact and fallacy have a responsibility before our responsibility to the movement, to stand up for the facts.

    I support this all the way, and in fact it pretty much echoes what I have been trying to do since I became aware of the problematic issue of misinformation within the movement.

    We need a factual basis for truth.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  3. DBLS
    Inactive

    Good idea!

    Posted 17 years ago #
  4. Diane
    Member

    Sounds like a good idea.

    I would suggest that, in addition to a "9/11 claims" section, your website also have a section devoted to "rational vs. irrational conspiracy theories," commenting on some of the more general conspiratorial beliefs of some of the groups in the 9/11 Truth movement, e.g. various beliefs about the so-called "New World Order." This could include a debunking of various common anti-Jewish claims, among other things.

    I could help with some aspects of debunking some "New World Order" claims.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  5. CV
    Member

    I'd help with this.

    Thinking of doing it wiki-style, cooperativeresearch-style, something else?

    Posted 17 years ago #
  6. Diane
    Member

    Wkii-style sounds good. But I would suggest that the wiki be editable NOT by everyone, but only by a select group of people, which newcomers could apply to join only after having posted some minimum number of posts on the message board. Other people could propose new additions or changes via posts on the message board.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  7. truthmod
    Administrator

    Here is what we've got so far:

    http://www.truthmove.org/research/

    The cosmetics and interface can all be tweaked.

    It's meant to be a place where a simple, current, and responsible conclusion can be made, concerning the various claims around 9/11 (and other areas of interest as well). If enough respected people get involved, it could become quite a resource, kind of like a simplified and more direct cooperative research. It could also be a hub for an "official consensus" on these various claims. I feel that many people are looking for a sort of official and trusted source that just gets down to the point. Remember, not everyone has the time or attention span to wade through books and cooperative research entries.

    It's another project meant to popularize and simplify all the information for wider consumption, while maintaining rigorous logic, sourcing, etc. That's what TruthMove was in the first place, but this takes the boiling down strategy even further.

    Please check it out and let us know how you think it could be improved. I like the idea of a wiki-style, although the authors would have to be fairly select, otherwise things could get very contentious very quickly.

    Not all of the entries are filled in, you might want to take a look at these examples.

    http://www.truthmove.org/research/claim/black-boxe...

    http://www.truthmove.org/research/claim/the-bin-la...

    Posted 17 years ago #
  8. truthmod
    Administrator

    I was just listening to JIm Hoffman on Visibility 9/11 radio

    http://media.libsyn.com/media/visibility911/visibi...

    Here's what he says toward the end of the show:

    Peer review is what we so vitally need...we need this system for improving the quality of our information, reviewing claims, and for once and for all declaring something just dead...

    Sounds like what we're talking about here.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  9. NicholasLevis
    Member

    Re: Black Boxes.

    You never knew the following? My small part in this was one of my proudest moments in this "movement."

    http://summeroftruth.org/groundzero.html

    Posted 17 years ago #
  10. JonGold
    Member

    I know about it Nick. I used it to "debunk" no planes at the WTC.

    http://www.911blogger.com/node/2340

    Posted 17 years ago #
  11. NicholasLevis
    Member

    Not you, JonGold. I'm talking about the example claim/counterclaim page on black boxes at this site.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  12. truthmod
    Administrator

    Nick, do you want to update that entry? I'll send you the login info...

    Posted 17 years ago #
  13. JonGold
    Member

    Incidentally Nick, I thought this was good.

    http://www.yourbbsucks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=...

    Posted 17 years ago #
  14. NicholasLevis
    Member

    Ah, but I like this version better:

    http://911truth.org/wargames/

    Getting on two years now... (squelching feelings of inadequacy here). In the meantime we had the recent E4B revelation (doomsday plane over DC). I need a sponsor since an update would take several weeks (for starters, listening to 100 hours of NORAD tapes).

    Posted 17 years ago #
  15. JonGold
    Member

    Whichever floats your boat. It was still good work. I would like to confirm who the "Maestro" was.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  16. NicholasLevis
    Member

    Thanks! I meant to say...

    Posted 17 years ago #

Reply

You must log in to post.