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NYC 9/11 Ballot Initiative? (17 posts)

  1. Diane
    Member

    What do people here think of the NYC 9/11 Ballot Initiative?

    http://www.nyc911initiative.org/

    What do people here think of the commissioners?

    http://www.nyc911initiative.org/commissioners.htm

    Also, what do people here think of Carl E. Person?

    http://www.nyc911initiative.org/nycag.htm

    Here is a list of some of the people who have endorsed the ballot initiative:

    http://www.nyc911initiative.org/endorsements.htm

    The group New York 9/11 Truth, headed by Les Jamieson, has been promoting the ballot initative in its street actions and at meetings I've attended. I was under the impression that Les himself was one of the major organizers of the ballot initiative, but, on further reflection, I'm now not sure exactly what his role in it is, beyond just being one of the people promoting it. I don't find either Les Jamieson or New York 9/11 Truth mentioned anywhere on the Ballot Initiative's website.

    Anyhow, the idea of an independent NYC commission looks like it MIGHT be a real opportunity to obtain justice, given that NYC -- unlike, say, Webre's "international tribunal" -- actually has legal jurisdiction over the WTC site.

    So, I think it's important to pay some attention to this ballot initiative.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  2. truthmover
    Administrator

    Good post

    Your skepticism is very welcome here. We have had a lot of experience with Les Jamieson. For more on that, look to the first response on this thread:

    http://www.truthmove.org/forum/topic/530?replies=1...

    NY911Truth is headed by Les, and the ballot initiative page is most certainly his work along with others. All his past sites have looked and sounded pretty much the same. He says he's a web designer.

    The idea of having a ballot initiative to promote discovery in our investigation is a good one. However the content of that initiative, and those associated with it have everything to do with it's potential success. I do not support the selection of potential commissioners by this organization. That would be a matter of great public concern and should reflect broad input. When people are out there collecting signatures, are they telling people who these commissioners are?

    I would certainly like to see someone propose a ballot initiative with legs. We'd be collecting signatures when we go out. But I don't think that this is it. And if you read the link above, you'll understand better why we are skeptical about Les' projects.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  3. Victronix
    Member

    Carl E. Person seems bizarre. Having someone who has run for NY AG and Mayor, and boasts about having created his own websites -- even if he is very correct on the issues -- generally leads to attack on his credibility. The first law-blog entry on his lawsuit against google pretty much trashed him on that basis. And there are two people who seem to be there strictly to try to represent all types, but I can't imagine they know much about 9/11 at all. My concern, also, is that a family member is involved. When these things implode they can really destroy people's hope and the public understanding of them.

    I don't find either Les Jamieson or New York 9/11 Truth mentioned anywhere on the Ballot Initiative's website.

    That should be a concern. Aren't such efforts required to show the information of who is behind it? Maybe not legally -- in CA one always finds secret billionaires behind the propositions on the ballot -- but on principle, it seems wrong not to have such information.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  4. Diane
    Member

    truthmod wrote:

    "I do not support the selection of potential commissioners by this organization. That would be a matter of great public concern and should reflect broad input."

    By what kind of process do you think the potential commissioners should be selected?

    As I understand it, the point of pre-selecting them was to make the selection of commissioners independent of the already-existing government, and thus, hopefully, truly independent. Is there another feasible process that could be a better way of accomplishing this same result?

    I would also be interested to hear what other people here think of the potential commissioners themselves, apart from the issue of how they were selected.

    Anyhow, given the potentially critical role that an NYC ballot initiative could play, I think this issue should be discussed widely throughout the 9/11 Truth movement, not just here in NYC.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  5. Diane
    Member

    Viktronix:

    "Carl E. Person seems bizarre. Having someone who has run for NY AG and Mayor, and boasts about having created his own websites -- even if he is very correct on the issues -- generally leads to attack on his credibility."

    There will be attacks on the credibility of anyone involved in the 9/11 Truth movement no matter what. It seems to me that the important thing would be to look at Carl E. Person's actual track record, rather than just dismiss him on the mere grounds that he has run for public office and created his own websites. I don't see why these latter things should be considered a problem.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  6. truthmod
    Administrator

    lu ann horstman person

    Posted 17 years ago #
  7. Victronix
    Member

    So far all I see about her is that she's produced a film . . .

    Posted 17 years ago #
  8. truthmover
    Administrator

    The Woman in White Slacks

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsvnaVBhLLk

    For many years, until just very recently, there was a hidden link on ny911truth.org to this video produced by Les and Lu Ann. She sings, he plays guitar. Les showed this video at St. Marks on at least one occasion at which I was present. Many in the audience, including myself, were appalled. I've now showed it to many friends of mine outside the movement who considered it highly off color, insensitive, or insulting. In fact I've never met anyone other than cohorts of Les who find this remotely appropriate.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  9. truthmod
    Administrator

    Damn, they took TWIWS down. I hope one of us has an archived copy somewhere.

    http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=woman%20in%2...

    Also, still no updates on the ny911truth.org site. Looks like Les has thoroughly succeeded in killing that organization.

    Posted 15 years ago #
  10. christs4sale
    Administrator

    Talk about an example of badjacketing. There are so many of these things around Les that you can see were clear setups to compromise the New York movement if they were ever needed. Paula Gloria, anti-semitic literature and WIWS. I showed that video to several people outside of the movement and all thought it was very offensive.

    Look at Sander's blog as he has not responded to my response about Les.

    Posted 15 years ago #
  11. JohnA
    Member

    don't forget he premiered the WIWS video at St Marks - unannounced - at a planned showing of my film. the room had a capacity crowd to see my film - (people standing in the back because there were not enough chairs) - and Les strong-armed this tasteless video onto the screen before my film even got started.

    i remember watching people leaving and thinking: "Damn! This is really making me look bad!"

    and - come to think of if - Les started distributing Criminal Politics in the days leading up to my premier at the Tribeca Film Festival - creating a schism that lead to none of the NY group attending my film.

    gee - Les sure has a knack for being in the wrong place at the right time.

    Posted 15 years ago #
  12. christs4sale
    Administrator

    Thanks John. That is really telling. I think I was there for the screening, but I think I missed WIWS.

    Here is PG's video of the Malcolm X event:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_rmpGmAodg&fea...

    Now it looks like there is a phony alternative to the already problematic 9/11 Ballot Initiative:

    http://www.911realinvestigation.org/

    Posted 15 years ago #
  13. Victronix
    Member

    Just reposting an email --

    Hey Everybody.

    Please come to an important meeting, tonight (March 18th), 7:30 PM, at St. Marks Church, which is the historic place on 2nd Ave, between 9th and 10th Streets, NYC. (131 East 10th Street, technically).

    I have re-doubled my efforts to help out with the NYC Ballot Initiative. We have a new name for our group: The "Coaltion for Accountability, NOW!"

    We already have 32,000 signatures, but we want to get a lot more, by the deadline of June 4. This is a really interesting activist project, because we have already made a lot of progress, and we have a head of steam.

    The 9/11 Movement in NYC is really strong, both in this group, and in the other important group, We Are Change. I'm active with both groups, as a part of laying the groundwork for planning the big 9/11/09 conference, "Real Change and Transparency."

    Our work for truth and transparency is especially important, as this week's headlines reported that a secret assassination squad reported directly to Dick Cheney. The bailout bonuses to AIG executives caused the President to "choke up with anger" yet his top economic advisor Larry Summers claims he can "do nothing." Well, we don't share that view. We are pissed off and we have a great outlet for our anger: working for peace and truth by re-claiming our democracy. We will put a call for a new investigation on the ballot in 2009. Alongside your ability to vote for Reverend Billy Talen for Mayor (he's the Green Party candidate) you will also be able to vote for the first real investigation of 9/11. No more secrecy and death in our name.

    COME ON OUT to St. Marks TONIGHT, WEDNESDAY, March 18th. The site of the grave of tyrannical Peter Stuyvestant, be a tough New Yorker who demands ACCOUNTABILITY, NOW!

    --

    Sander Hicks

    Posted 15 years ago #
  14. Victronix
    Member

    Is it true that ballot initiatives can just reuse all the signatures from previous election cycles? I would assume that means that nothing has changed in terms of the parameters, the money, the Commissioners, etc

    Posted 15 years ago #
  15. truthmover
    Administrator

    My response is here. (A more comprehensive thread.)

    http://www.truthmove.org/forum/topic/871/page/3?re...

    Posted 15 years ago #
  16. christs4sale
    Administrator

    Damn. I wish that I knew about this earlier. I would have loved to go to this and raise some hell with a video camera.

    Posted 15 years ago #
  17. truthmover
    Administrator

    Other thread please. This is not the main Ballot Initiative thread.

    .

    Other thread please. This is not the main Ballot Initiative thread.

    .

    Other thread please. This is not the main Ballot Initiative thread.

    Posted 15 years ago #

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