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Significant Change to Comments at 911blogger.com (18 posts)

  1. truthmover
    Administrator

    http://www.911blogger.com/node/9750

    Looks like dz has taken leave of 911blogger and left the reigns in Reprehensor's hands. And they are going to be changing things as a result. The first thing they are changing is the moderation of posts.

    Users that consistently post the same hypotheses and theories that have brought out the worst in other users here, and have led to endless, pointless flame war threads that are never resolved, will simply find that their posts don't show up anymore. (Regular users of this site know exactly what I'm talking about.)

    I'm sure the character of that forum will be changing greatly as a result. I'm not sure what to expect. One would hope that the site moves toward greater focus on primary issues in the process. Less distraction would be fantastic.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  2. truthmover
    Administrator

    The latest

    Comments from GeorgeWashington:

    http://www.911blogger.com/node/9789

    Please give it a month to see how it works. In the meantime, instead of complaining about the new system, please put more of your energy into writing hard-hitting blogs, sharing news tips, and organizing activist activities. Those activities "push the ball down field". Those activities are keeping our "eyes on the prize".

    The response to the change in moderation seems to be overwhelmingly negative to the point that many are accusing the moderators of being undemocratic for not changing it back immediately and saying that they will not be returning. Others, who also don't like the change, are willing to wait and see how it goes, or maybe how long it takes for them to change it back. Still others support the change, but their comments are getting voted down. The most agreed upon concern is that moderating comments before they are posted takes away from the immediacy of the conversation.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  3. truthmod
    Administrator

    They should have recommended the TruthMove forum as one of the alternatives.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  4. Victronix
    Member

    I've noticed that some of my comments aren't appearing. Maybe they will later. But so far the ones where I called out the website reopen911.info for its links to pods and Jimmy Walter haven't appeared. And that story is on the front page promoting that hoax site even though the woman at the center of the story says it is misrepresenting her (!), while Kevin Ryan's letter documenting real and significant errors in the Purdue animation remains in the blogs section.

    My feeling is that blogger is mainly about promoting no plane at the Pentagon, Hollywood, name dropping without substance (i.e., Charlie Sheen thinks drones hit the WTC), and Loose Change promotions (because of no planes or it's Hollywood appeal), mixed with a few LIHOP posts from Jon Gold.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  5. truthmover
    Administrator

    We're almost there

    The forum needs a few more posters to be viewed as an active movement venue.

    Imagine a forum in which everyone posting is contributing thoughtfully and with proactive intent. A forum in which the core priorities of the movement are paramount. A forum moderated to ensure the productivity of the space. That's what we've got on our mind here. And its happening on a really small scale at the moment.

    Basic premise: A truth movement forum should not exclude the truth of the movement.

    As our intro says, 'The truth is what you get when people are being honest with themselves, and one another..." False unity is not honest. Spreading disinformation is not honest. 'Jes Jamaison' is not honest. (Whoops, did I say that out loud?) If we can't be honest in here, and just get it wrong sometimes, then we don't have a truly open venue for discussion. But we are certainly trying not to be wrong, like any good scientist, historian, or journalist.

    911Blogger will still serve an important purpose even if it's just a news site and blog site, without comments. But the movement does need a place where those who are informed and disciplined can share their honest observations and mutually develop strategies. Our forum is one place like that.

    Please, everyone, help us make this forum an important resource for others. Invite others to post here, and we will soon have a really active venue for movement discussion.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  6. truthmover
    Administrator

    My feeling is that blogger is mainly about promoting no plane at the Pentagon, Hollywood, name dropping without substance (i.e., Charlie Sheen thinks drones hit the WTC), and Loose Change promotions (because of no planes or it's Hollywood appeal), mixed with a few LIHOP posts from Jon Gold.

    That's not quite a fair representation. You're leaving out some big categories of bad stuff. :) Actually, my experience with 911blogger has been mostly positive, based on my approach I suppose. I just ignore a lot. Recently things got out of control, and so I'm not surprised by their change in moderation. But for some time, ignoring the fluff, I got some important movement news, and participated in some relatively important conversations. Up to this point the site has been trying to be a catch-all, 'big tent' operation. Anyone in the movement can post just about anything. As such, it has represented a cross-section of the movement, from science to speculation.

    So your description above is really one of the movement itself. And in that we agree. People are incredibly distracted by answers that don't require much reading or self-doubt. 911blogger itself, the moderators, aren't caught up in all these things necessarily, but the open nature of the site allows for their promotion. And in this way, the site has been recently captured, to some degree, by users more interested in hype than substance. Increasingly, the rational voices have been voted down and marginalized.

    And the impact is that we don't get to talk honestly about many important things. The subject of infiltration is inherently threatening to those who desire a 'big tent.' It's been a taboo subject in the movement for too long. We must have a place where we can discuss this issue with no concern for being shouted down or labeled as divisive. We must have a place where we are safe to say that certain strategies don't work or undermine our core priorities. Open discussion of disinformation and infiltration are definitely very present and essential concerns for the movement.

    Is there some other movement forum that's the place to be? Am I missing the party?

    Posted 17 years ago #
  7. Victronix
    Member

    And in this way, the site has been recently captured, to some degree, by users more interested in hype than substance. Increasingly, the rational voices have been voted down and marginalized.

    Actually IMO, the site has been that way from early on if not day 1. I've been watching it closely from day 1. The indymedia models were similar in the anything goes design and so quickly were drowned in no-plane and hologram hoaxes to the point where most indymedia editors refused to allow discussion at all or trashed people on those threads at any opportunity because they were so turned off to the lunatic bunch we appeared to be.

    This was an important loss for the movement, that venue. But most indymedias themselves have been destroyed internally also. The model was flawed. But the fact is, the only reason the numbers of posts asserting HOLOGRAMS would climb so high is due to a campaign or an intentional targeting. Those supporting holograms, pods and missiles are far less than those who don't, but if one side has an endless budget . . .

    In the US, the opposite side of a 'truth' movement will likely have an endless supply of cash, time and bodies, so the Big Tent model will always easily drown out the important and real stuff, and replace it with whatever will work best to tank the movement. This is fact, unfortunately.

    We saw in the votes for Fetzer when the Scholars group split from him, how tiny his support actually was, but we -- as a committee -- were being slammed daily with attack emails from the supporting gang, making it look like there was support. The real people gave him almost zero support.

    The Big Tent model is completely vulnerable (if not designed) to failure in the context of any truth effort in the US.

    The reason this forum works is that moderators know the situation, and aren't afraid. I assume that's evolved from experience. So there is one real forum out here. I know of no others, unfortunately. Richard Gage has a new forum for his site but it is specialized and already is allowing the worst of the worst, despite my pleas. They have good intentions and will improve, but at this moment there is at least one no-plane-at-the-WTC promoter on there, as well as the concrete core columns guy who was kicked off the pods forum long ago and blocked from the scientific areas of the STJ forum. People have to learn in their own way, unfortunately. And disinfo promoters are experts at manipulation.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  8. truthmover
    Administrator

    Update

    In the past few days, comments on news and blog posts at 911blogger have dropped to just two or three per post, where before comments would occasionally go into the hundreds. Either they are keeping a bunch of stuff they don't like off, or else everyone decided to stop commenting.

    Either way, the admins have been paying attention, and are planning to offer some kind of compromise.

    Dear 911blogger community... We have read every single one of your comments regarding the comments change, and we are working on a solution to help relieve the tension created by this change.

    reprehensor GeorgeWashington SomeBigGuy

    http://www.911blogger.com/node/9882

    Posted 17 years ago #
  9. truthmover
    Administrator

    The final word

    Truthaction.org Offers a 911blogger Message Board: "The Blogger Board"

    http://www.911blogger.com/node/10000

    Truthaction.org has stepped up to offer a dedicated section of their message board as our official message board...Register a handle at Truthaction.org, and when you see a News story or Blog entry at 911blogger.com that you want to comment on, start a new thread with the same title in the 911blogger forum and post away...The team members at 911blogger.com want to focus on 9/11 News, OpEds, and original content, and regret that we can't be all things to everyone in the 911blogger community. Hopefully, a moderated forum will be good for everyone.

    http://truthaction.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=33

    If you go to this link, the TruthAction forum, you will find that it is not in use. At least not yet. I don't think this is the compromise that previous 911blogger users were looking for, and so this may spell the end whatever unique was happening there.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  10. truthmod
    Administrator

    Besides our banner, I don't think anyone in charge of 911blogger has ever recommended or linked to TruthMove. There seems to be a clear alliance now between 911blogger, truthaction, and wearechange. I commend the success of the "Eleventh of the Month Campaign" promoted by truthaction, but this concept has been thrown around by many others in the movement for years. On top of that, none of these three sites is geared toward research.

    It seems likely that some of these people probably do not like us because we've taken a more cautious approach and we don't subscribe to the Ron Paul-libertarian-NWO-global warming is a hoax viewpoint.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  11. Victronix
    Member

    I was pretty surprised to see the limited comments they've allowed for the NYPost piece - they say absolutely nothing against Siegel or Haupt and ignore the content of the article completely. This is a good opportunity for education, but I guess they are just shutting down any discussion on it.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  12. truthmod
    Administrator

    I made an announcement of our new site update and an appeal for help/donations on 911blogger. It didn't make the front page. http://www.911blogger.com/node/10097

    But this video of We Are Change harassing Alan Colmes did: http://www.911blogger.com/node/10100

    Posted 17 years ago #
  13. Victronix
    Member

    The 911blogger front page has a formula:

    No plane at the Pentagon Hollywood stars (no matter what is coming out of their mouths) Edited excerpts from Hollywood stars' made to LOOK like no-plane-at-the-Pentagon (i.e., Michael Moore) FOX News shows where "truthers" generally are made to look like silly or scream back and forth Loose Change Every new member at patriotsquestion Personality Cult figures who support hype and no planes - Alex Jones, Webster Tarpley, Kevin B. Anything in the streets, no matter how obnoxious Anything involving a government figure being questioned in public

    Posted 17 years ago #
  14. Victronix
    Member

    Some of these are good and some are problematic, primarily the ongoing implicit advocation of how a Boeing couldn't have hit the Pentagon, over and over and over. I noticed that the recent "banner" creation from Kevin Barrett which he is selling includes numerous references to 'no plane' websites (911physics, pilotsfortruth, etc) as does the Deception Dollar now.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  15. truthmod
    Administrator

    One of the comments to the post on blogger from "Colombo." I guess this made it past the moderation.

    He doesn't even get the first sentence right.

    http://www.911blogger.com/node/10097

    TruthMove.org started out as small site devoted to 9/11, but

    it has now cunningly diluted itself into progressive issues, environmental issues, promoting the Peak Oil & Global Warming distraction/misinformation theories, insisting that AA-77 slammed into the Pentagon despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, bashing aggressive truthers like Alex Jones, etc.

    I believe that TruthMove has lots of subtle disinfo carefully embedded into it, and its real goal (or the goal of certain members) may be to slowly hinder & sabotage 9/11 truth.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  16. Arabesque
    Member

    "Colombo" is one of most "ardent" no-plane at the Pentagon theorists on 911blogger. I've seen him misrepresent the hole size at the Pentagon many times even after posting photos of the actual hole in response to one of his small hole size comments. Either he needs a new pair of glasses, or there is something else wrong with him.

    The speculation over who is and is not an agent is pretty irrelevant in my opinion. These types of discussions are the most favorite tactics of the actual agents who want to create division among activists by focusing and distracting attention away from logically examining theories, and why they are true or false.

    Even just recently, I got hot air from another ardent no-planer at the Pentagon who accused me of being a Sean Hannity simply because I wanted to see credible evidence that the passengers did not fake their deaths. Never mind the news reports of DNA recovered from people on those flights--even years later.

    Has anyone ever compiled all the news accounts of the passenger remains found at the WTC? I find it incredibly hard to believe that the government would fake news accounts as many as 5 years later to simply imply that DNA from passengers on the flights was found at ground zero.

    Of course, it would be a waste of time anyways, since there are people who subscribe to the concept of "everything is fake" if it supports the official story.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  17. Arabesque
    Member

    It looks like I already have an answer. This might be one of the best counters to the no-plane at the WTC theories:

    The 1,401 people identified include 45 of those aboard the hijacked planes - 33 from Flight 11, which struck the north tower, and 12 from Flight 175, which hit the south tower.

    Using DNA alone, 673 people were identified. Using dental records only, 187 were identified; fingerprints only, 71; photo identification, 16; miscellaneous X-rays, 45.

    http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/planes/evidence/...

    There are other reports of victims from the flights being identified and I'll compile them into a research piece.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  18. Arabesque
    Member

    I've done a post on the subject of no-planes with plane switching briefly examined at the WTC (but it also applies to the Pentagon) here:

    The No-Plane Disinformation and the “Conspiracy Theory Method” http://arabesque911.blogspot.com/2007/07/no-plane-...

    I've included several reports about passenger DNA from the planes that hit the towers. This is only an hour or so of research, so I might add some more if I find the reports. If you have any suggestions for improvement let me know.

    Posted 17 years ago #

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