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"We Demand Transparency" Conference - FAILURE!!!! (93 posts)

  1. truthmover
    Administrator

    http://changeandtransparency.blogspot.com/2009/06/...

    Daniel Sunjata - Activist and Star of FX's Rescue Me

    Richard Gage - Founder of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth

    Erik Lawyer - Founder of Firefighters for 9/11 Truth

    Ellen Brown - Creator of the popular blog Web of Debt.

    CITIZEN INVESTIGATION TEAM - Aldo Marquis and the PentaCon film project

    William Pepper, Esq. - Prolific Attorney and Author.

    Kevin Barrett - 9/11 Truth Activist and author of Truth Jihad.

    Jason Bermas - Producer of the internet sensations Loose Change: Second Edition and Loose Change: Final Cut. Jason also wrote and directed Fabled Enemies and will be speaking about his upcoming film Invisible Empire.

    Daniel Hopsicker - Investigative Journalist and Documentary Filmmaker. Author of Welcome to Terrorland: Mohamed Atta & the 9-11 Cover-Up in Florida.

    Mike Berger - Director of Improbable Collapse, Mike will be speaking about his just-released film Life on the Edge of the Bubble: Blowing the America Dream.

    MC: Sander Hicks with Justin Martell

    This is absolutely typical of the movement in NYC. Basically it's "Ready for Mainstream" part 2. What isn't typical is the cooperation between Les and Luke as facilitated by Hicks, none of whom I trust one iota. Score one for the big tent.

    This seems like a fantastic opportunity for Sunjata to be associated with no-planes garbage and divisive figures. A real win for those trying to take him down a notch.

    But with NYCCAN having enough signatures for submission to the city council, we have to assume that people are going to want to support this bandwagon.

    Kevin Barrett and Craig Ranke? Those are certainly the two of the people associated with this movement who I feel have done the most damage. So who invited them and why? Who supports the inclusion of people who promote fallacy and attack our allies?

    Well, Les Jamieson comes to mind. Please get the word out. This is not acceptable. We need to offer some kind of vocal opposition to this mess. People need to know that this crap does not reflect the views of everyone in the movement.

    Total nightmare.

    Posted 15 years ago #
  2. Victronix
    Member

    On Craig Ranke and CIT --

    http://www.ocweekly.com/2008-08-14/features/pentac...

    • Here is an excerpt --

    "One of their first stops was [Pentagon eyewitness Mike] Walter's Fairfax, Virginia, home. After noticing Ranke's not-so-subtle effort to secretly tape-record their conversation—and realizing that Ranke and Marquis weren't interested in hearing anything that contradicted their notion that a plane didn't actually hit the building—he refused to submit to an interview. "They thought they were really going to uncover this thing, and I tried to set them straight," Walter says. "The next day, I told them I wasn't going to talk to them, and later, I found out they were really hammering on me on the Internet." Walter's friend Troy Hanford, who was also at the barbecue, says that Pickering and Avery seemed like "opportunists" who were just trying to make it in Hollywood. "They wanted to be the next Michael Moore team," he said. "The other guys"—Marquis and Ranke—"their objective was to unseat the U.S. government."

    Posted 15 years ago #
  3. truthmod
    Administrator

    AWESOME, YESSSS! 9/11/2009. Now or Never, Ready for the Dustbin.

    Posted 15 years ago #
  4. Victronix
    Member

    This seems like a fantastic opportunity for Sunjata to be associated with no-planes garbage and divisive figures. A real win for those trying to take him down a notch.

    Does Sunjata have a contact that anyone knows? Or if anyone can post anything on a twitter or facebook fan page or something . . . I'm at work and cannot access those here. He should be warned.

    Posted 15 years ago #
  5. truthmover
    Administrator

    I couldn't find any contact info online. But we can leave comments on the Change and Transparency blog. Although I strongly suspect that our comments would not be posted or removed after the fact. But it might be worth a try.

    Posted 15 years ago #
  6. Arabesque
    Member

    Kevin Barrett and Craig Ranke? Those are certainly the two of the people associated with this movement who I feel have done the most damage. So who invited them and why? Who supports the inclusion of people who promote fallacy and attack our allies?

    Well, at least William Pepper will give this event some credibility (snark).

    Posted 15 years ago #
  7. christs4sale
    Administrator

    Does Sunjata have a contact that anyone knows? Or if anyone can post anything on a twitter or facebook fan page or something . . . I'm at work and cannot access those here. He should be warned.

    I would not be surprised that his contacts within the movement got him into this mess in the first place and are acting like gatekeepers to prevent any such warning to get through. This could be similar to Fetzer and Jesse Ventura.

    Well, at least William Pepper will give this event some credibility (snark).

    I have lost all confidence in Pepper through his involvement in the 9/11 movement. I'd love to see what Reprehensor would say about this. This is another example to further my argument.

    Posted 15 years ago #
  8. christs4sale
    Administrator

    For Google #1 and #2 of "The Real Change and Transparency Conference" you get Sander's blog about the event and that has critical posts commenting on it.

    Posted 15 years ago #
  9. truthmover
    Administrator

    Good job adding some critical info into this mix.

    Posted 15 years ago #
  10. Victronix
    Member

    ha ha . . .

    Posted 15 years ago #
  11. JohnA
    Member

    I know in many respects we are preaching to the choir here (ourselves) - so we take it for granted that we all know the history - and WHY we would oppose this particular mix of speakers.

    but - i agree with TruthMover. We should assume that this thread will be read by many new lurkers who are interested in this conference - and list out, as carefully as possible - in as responsible a way as possible - why we would oppose this event.

    Posted 15 years ago #
  12. truthmod
    Administrator

    Can't find much about this online. Here are a few tidbits:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernatural_(rapper)

    On August 5, 2006, Supernatural attempted to set a new world record for the longest freestyle whilst hosting the Rock The Bells festival in San Bernardino, CA. Supernatural freestyled for over nine hours, breaking the original record of 8 hours 45 minutes set by D.O. of Canada, but not the 10 hours 34 minutes set by British emcee Ruffstylz in October 2003. The Current World Record is 16 Hours, set by Brooklyn DJ and lyricist/activist DJ Green Arrow. It should be noted that D.O. still holds the official record according to Guinness, not Supernat or Ruffstylz or DJ Green Arrow. DJ Green Arrow has pledged to officially break the Guinness Record, Sept. 12-13 at an event in NYC called the Real Change and Transparency conference. DJ Green Arrow has been training to rap for 48 Hours, thus quintupling the official record still held by D.O. and tripling his own record. DJ Green Arrow also is training to be able to break his world record every year, with money to benefit activist movements.

    Victronix quoting an email from Sander Hicks three months ago:

    http://www.truthmove.org/forum/topic/634?replies=1...

    Please come to an important meeting, tonight (March 18th), 7:30 PM, at St. Marks Church, which is the historic place on 2nd Ave, between 9th and 10th Streets, NYC. (131 East 10th Street, technically).

    The 9/11 Movement in NYC is really strong, both in this group, and in the other important group, We Are Change. I'm active with both groups, as a part of laying the groundwork for planning the big 9/11/09 conference, "Real Change and Transparency."

    Sander Hicks

    http://www.ae911truth.org/info/70

    Mr. Gage will, of course, be in New York City for the 8th anniversary of the most tragic day in American history. The Real Change and Transparency Conference promises to be a potent "stimulus" for healing and transformation. We will be joined by Erik Lawyer, Citizens Investigation Team, Daniel Sunjata, William Pepper, Kevin Barrett, Ellen Brown, Jason Bermas, and other dedicated 9/11 Truth activists.

    Posted 15 years ago #
  13. truthmover
    Administrator

    A bit of cross promotion.

    "The Real Change and Transparency Conference"

    http://911truthburnout.blogspot.com/2009/06/real-c...

    This thread and my blog post are floating around on or near the first page of results in a google search.

    Posted 15 years ago #
  14. truthmover
    Administrator

    Well, it looks like the cooperation between Luke and Les fell apart. Luke and WeAreChange are promoting the "Real Change" conference, while Sander and Les are still trying to organize their event and considering changing the name.

    With the "Real Change" conference getting rid of Deagle, and disassociating itself from the big tent fiasco of Les' event, I'm glad that this alternative is present. It will likely be more prominent and well attended that the Les event, and will hopefully draw attention away from that potential fiasco.

    Posted 15 years ago #
  15. truthmover
    Administrator

    I posted to my blog about the split and changed the name of this thread to reflect that change.

    http://911truthburnout.blogspot.com/2009/07/we-dem...

    Posted 15 years ago #
  16. thatsmystory
    Member

    I recall the documentary Horns and Halos which was about Hicks' efforts to republish the book Fortunate Son by J.H. Hatfield.

    Hicks saw firsthand how solid information was discredited when the source of that information was discredited.

    Posted 15 years ago #
  17. mark
    Member

    Sorry that I don't consider "ae911truth" to be any more truthful than much of the other nonsense.

    Means, motive, opportunity. Warnings, Wargames.

    Whatever you think about the demolition theories (for or against), note how the media loves to make 9/11 complicity dependent on those claims and consistently ignores means, motive, opportunity, the warnings and wargames. Obviously it is a coincidence that they all follow the same pattern ...

    Posted 15 years ago #
  18. cosmos
    Member

    Sorry that I don't consider "ae911truth" to be any more truthful than much of the other nonsense.

    No need to apologize for your opinion but it's worth less than nothing unless you can back it up.

    Whatever you think about the demolition theories (for or against), note how the media loves to make 9/11 complicity dependent on those claims

    Actually, what the 'the media' loves to do is inject BS claims like no planes and BS associations like holocaust denial and anti-semitism. If you're honest about the history of mainstream media attention to the cause, you will admit that controlled demolition was hardly handpicked and placed at the forefront by corporate news. It started getting exposure because they couldn't avoid it anymore. And if they loved it as much as you keep repeating that they do, there wouldn't be any need for mixing in garbage like no planes, holocaust denial, etc. You may not like it but the fact that CD is harder to sweep under the rug than a lot of other evidence is actually a plus, not a minus.

    Posted 15 years ago #
  19. truthmover
    Administrator

    Actually, what the 'the media' loves to do is inject BS claims like no planes and BS associations like holocaust denial and anti-semitism. If you're honest about the history of mainstream media attention to the cause, you will admit that controlled demolition was hardly handpicked and placed at the forefront by corporate news. It started getting exposure because they couldn't avoid it anymore. And if they loved it as much as you keep repeating that they do, there wouldn't be any need for mixing in garbage like no planes, holocaust denial, etc. You may not like it but the fact that CD is harder to sweep under the rug than a lot of other evidence is actually a plus, not a minus.

    Mark,

    I think Cosmos has a couple of good points there. I'm interested in your response. I'm hoping for some nuance.

    Posted 15 years ago #
  20. Arabesque
    Member

    The way the MSM has always operated is to frame 9/11 truth as 9/11 conspiracy "theory". It works like this:

    1. The 9/11 truth movement ONLY believes in theories about the 9/11 attack. They can't prove it.
    2. Here's why: We have the (paid and bought) experts. Look at those (nutty) conspiracy theories. They are just theories!
    3. The manipulative propaganda ploy: Audience (Hmm, the "experts" are saying this is bogus, so it must be. The government would NEVER do such a thing anyways).

    I think it is ABUNDANTLY clear that the MSM is not interested in giving a fair hearing to 9/11 truth issues, and expecting them to do so at this point is extremely naive. The point that people like Ruppert have made is that when the debate is "experts" versus "conspiracy theorists", the goal is not to convince critical minded individuals, but to manipulate the mass public who are incapable of thinking for themselves.

    So, the question is, how to beat the "expert" versus "conspiracy theorists" debate on the MSM? And the answer is to turn the debate into issues that do not involve "theories". For example, statements by US government officials that implicate guilt and complicity. Examples include, promotions, damning testimony to the 9/11 commission, contradictory testimony, destruction of evidence, and countless other examples.

    Put simply, when the MSM wants to debate 9/11 truth they aren't going to make the debate around clear cut issues that can't be spinned or muddied with "paid experts" whose sole purpose is to manipulate mass opinion. This has always been Rupert's point of view, but it is poorly understood by the 9/11 truth movement.

    I don't agree with the statement that A&E are dishonest or "untruthful". How many members of this organization are there again? And they are supposedly "experts" in building construction, if that means anything to you. However, it is clear that the MSM will always portray the debate as "experts" versus "conspiracy theorists". Despite the fact that certain laws of the universe (free fall speed) are pretty blatantly contradicted by the official story, the layperson will be swayed by propaganda techniques of argument.

    Posted 15 years ago #
  21. Arcterus
    Member

    Actually, what the 'the media' loves to do is inject BS claims like no planes and BS associations like holocaust denial and anti-semitism. If you're honest about the history of mainstream media attention to the cause, you will admit that controlled demolition was hardly handpicked and placed at the forefront by corporate news. It started getting exposure because they couldn't avoid it anymore. And if they loved it as much as you keep repeating that they do, there wouldn't be any need for mixing in garbage like no planes, holocaust denial, etc. You may not like it but the fact that CD is harder to sweep under the rug than a lot of other evidence is actually a plus, not a minus.

    I agree, but I think Mark still has a point that CD is more commonly discussed over documented evidence. However, I don't view this as a statement on the validity of CD, more on the debateability of CD. Truthers and debunkers have been going back and forth on controlled demolition for years, how many valid responses have you heard towards the fact that nobody in charge of defending America that day was reprimanded and some even promoted?

    Posted 15 years ago #
  22. christs4sale
    Administrator

    Is Cindy Sheehan out? I no longer see her listed.

    Posted 15 years ago #
  23. truthmover
    Administrator

    It certainly looks like that's the case. Score one for the good guys who have been writing lots of letters. She made the least sense, participating in an event with Barrett who backed up Tarpley and Fetzer during the Kennebunkport Warning fiasco.

    Posted 15 years ago #
  24. christs4sale
    Administrator

    One thing we tend not to remember about the Ready for Mainstream conference is that Ranke presented at it. One memory was Truthmod and I standing outside of the conference and Nico coming by to talk to us about TV Fakery and then Ranke joined the conversation. Truthmod and I left Nico and Ranke in a rather heated argument about what happened at the Pentagon. We definitely did not try to make sense of it.

    Posted 15 years ago #
  25. christs4sale
    Administrator

    http://changeandtransparency.blogspot.com/2009/06/...

    Add Russ Baker. I highly recommend his book Family of Secrets. Notice that at the bottom of the page that two comments were deleted by the admin. One was questioning Kevin Barrett and the other was saying that Barrett has redeemed himself. I think Hicks wants to wipe out any notion of controversy here.

    Posted 15 years ago #
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