Forum

TruthMove Forum

TruthMove Forum » TruthMove Main Forum

"24": Worse than I thought. Notes on the season premier. (8 posts)

  1. truthmover
    Administrator

    Out of curiosity, and being that I don't like to trash things I don't know much about, I watched the first two hours of the new season.

    Wow!

    Within the first five minutes, Jack Bauer is waxing poetic about how ends justify means and that torture is necessary because that's what the enemy would do. He also implies that the public agrees. Later Jack threatens to gouge someone eye out with a pen to get him to talk. But not before he gets a lecture from his FBI handlers about not going over the top which only matters for as long as it takes for the situation to become dire at which point he is given permission to torture.

    We also get the female prez telling the Sec of State that she doesn't care for all his subtle political concerns and that he should resign if he's not willing to take direct military action. All that troublesome "hand wringing", read diplomacy, is for the weak.

    They are discussing invading an African country to overthrow the genocidal leader. Lots of "we care about dying African's" b.s. to make the means seem justified.

    Later the bad guys take control of a passenger jet by hijacking FAA communications and redirecting planes into conflicting flight paths. Eventually they scramble some fighter jets to intercept, but it seems that's not a primary or immediate response in such cases.

    We also learn that the FBI has been infiltrated suggesting extra-legal measures are called for. Score one for black ops.

    The thing that stood out most to me was the inclusion of Janeane Garofalo in this season's cast. She plays a quirky FBI office nerd type. Here's what that is clearly about.

    Very much like Ice-T's inclusion in the cast of "Law & Order: SVU" as a police detective, remember his song "Cop Killer", Garofalo has had her status as anti-establishment figure, Air America host, nullified by incorporation into the mainstream propaganda machine. I'm really disappointed by this. She's getting a fat paycheck, and like Ice-T, hadn't been working a lot lately when the offer came.

    Now I'm really curious about who writes the show. It's got be be a committee, or at least heavily subject to review by security and law enforcement officials. The show really did feel to me like it was nothing more than expensive propaganda for the Bush Doctrine.

    Posted 15 years ago #
  2. NicholasLevis
    Member

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/01/business/media/0...

    World Falls for American Media, Even as It Sours on America

    By TIM ARANGO Published: November 30, 2008

    Shortly after the attacks on 9/11, a delegation of high-level media executives, including the heads of every major studio, met several times with White House officials, including at least once with President Bush’s former top strategist, Karl Rove, to discuss ways that the entertainment industry could play a part in improving the image of the United States overseas.


    http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/02/19/0702...

    For all its fictional liberties, “24” depicts the fight against Islamist extremism much as the Bush Administration has defined it: as an all-consuming struggle for America’s survival that demands the toughest of tactics. Not long after September 11th, Vice-President Dick Cheney alluded vaguely to the fact that America must begin working through the “dark side” in countering terrorism. On “24,” the dark side is on full view. Surnow, who has jokingly called himself a “right-wing nut job,” shares his show’s hard-line perspective. Speaking of torture, he said, “Isn’t it obvious that if there was a nuke in New York City that was about to blow—or any other city in this country—that, even if you were going to go to jail, it would be the right thing to do?”


    http://thetruthproject.us/2007/06/20/judge-scalia-...

    June 20, 2007...2:00 pm Judge Scalia cites Jack Bauer as example in discussion over torture Jump to Comments

    Globe & Mail | Colin Freeze

    OTTAWA — Justice Antonin Scalia is one of the most powerful judges on the planet.

    The job of the veteran U.S. Supreme Court judge is to ensure that the superpower lives up to its Constitution. But in his free time, he is a fan of 24, the popular TV drama where the maverick federal agent Jack Bauer routinely tortures terrorists to save American lives. This much was made clear at a legal conference in Ottawa this week.

    Senior judges from North America and Europe were in the midst of a panel discussion about torture and terrorism law, when a Canadian judge’s passing remark - “Thankfully, security agencies in all our countries do not subscribe to the mantra ‘What would Jack Bauer do?’ ” - got the legal bulldog in Judge Scalia barking.

    The conservative jurist stuck up for Agent Bauer, arguing that fictional or not, federal agents require latitude in times of great crisis. “Jack Bauer saved Los Angeles. … He saved hundreds of thousands of lives,” Judge Scalia said. Then, recalling Season 2, where the agent’s rough interrogation tactics saved California from a terrorist nuke, the Supreme Court judge etched a line in the sand.

    “Are you going to convict Jack Bauer?” Judge Scalia challenged his fellow judges. “Say that criminal law is against him? ‘You have the right to a jury trial?’ Is any jury going to convict Jack Bauer? I don’t think so.

    “So the question is really whether we believe in these absolutes. And ought we believe in these absolutes.”

    What happened next was like watching the National Security Judges International All-Star Team set into a high-minded version of a conversation that has raged across countless bars and dinner tables, ever since 24 began broadcasting six seasons ago.

    Jack Bauer, played by Canadian Kiefer Sutherland, gets meaner as he lurches from crisis to crisis, acting under few legal constraints. “You are going to tell me what I want to know, it’s just a matter of how much you want it to hurt,” is one of his catchphrases. Every episode poses an implicit question to its viewers: Does the end justify the means if national security is at stake? On 24, the answer is, invariably, yes.

    But sometimes this message proves a little too persuasive. Last November, a U.S. Army brigadier-general, Patrick Finnegan, of West Point, went to California to meet with the show’s producers. He asked if the writers would consider reining in Agent Bauer. “The kids see it, and say, ‘If torture is wrong, what about 24?” he told The New Yorker in February.

    He argued that “they should do a show where torture backfires.” It’s not just the military that’s watching 24. It turns out that the judges who struggle to square the Guantanamo Bay prison camp experiment with the British Habeas Corpus Act of 1679 are watching the show, too. It was Mr. Justice Richard Mosley of the Federal Court of Canada who inadvertently started the debate, with his derogatory drive-by slight against Jack Bauer, the one that so provoked Judge Scalia.

    In his day job, the Canadian judge wrestles with the implications of torture. Last winter, for example, Judge Mosley ordered an Osama bin Laden associate freed from seven years prison and into strict house arrest in Toronto.

    Judge Mosley told the panel that rights-respecting governments can’t take part in torture or encourage it in any way. “The agents of the state, and the agents of the Canadian state, under the Criminal Code, are very much subject to severe criminal sanction if they would engage in torture,” he said.

    But the U.S. Supreme Court judge choked on that position, saying it would be folly for laws to dictate that counterterrorism agents must wear kid gloves all the time. While Judge Scalia argued that doomsday scenarios may well lead to the reconsideration of rights, in his legal decisions he has also said that catastrophic attacks and intelligence imperatives do not automatically give the U.S. president a blank cheque - the people have to decide. “If civil rights are to be curtailed during wartime, it must be done openly and democratically, as the Constitution requires, rather than by silent erosion through an opinion of this court,” he dissented in a 2004 decision. The judicial majority ruled that a presidential order meant that an American “enemy combatant” wasn’t entitled to challenge the conditions of his detention, which happened to be aboard a naval brig.

    As they discussed torture in Ottawa, the judicial panelists from outside the United States argued that any implicit or explicit sanction of torture is a slippery slope.

    Some said that legal systems might do well to enforce anti-torture laws, even if it meant prosecuting rogue agents. “What if the guy is not the guy who’s going to blow up Los Angeles? But some kind of innocent?” asked Lord Carlile of Berriew, a Welshman who acts as the independent reviewer of Britain’s terrorism laws.

    Torture can lead to false confessions, he said. “How do you protect that person’s civil rights from the risk of very serious wrongful conviction?” But Lord Carlile, a barrister by training, added that he was also concerned with Jack Bauer’s rights. “I’m sure I could get him off,” he said.

    One panelist deadpanned that saving Los Angeles from a nuke would likely be a mitigating factor during any sentencing of Jack Bauer.

    When the panel opened to questions and commentary from the floor, a senior Canadian government lawyer said: “Maybe saving L.A. is an easy question. How many people are we going to torture to save L.A.?” asked Stanley Cohen, a senior counsel for the Justice Department, who specializes in human rights law. “How much certainty do we get to have that we have the right person in front of us?” Then Lorne Waldman, the lawyer for the famously wronged engineer Maher Arar, emerged from the crowd to say that very little of the conversation sounded hypothetical to him.

    Mr. Arar was among a series of Canadian Arabs who emerged from lengthy ordeals in Syrian jails to complain of torture. Their common complaint is that Syrian torture - including beatings with electric cables - flowed from a wrongly premised Canadian investigation after 9/11.

    A host of security agents, Mr. Waldman argued, acted with utmost urgency against innocents, after wrongly fearing a bomb plot was afoot.

    Generally, the jurists in the room agreed that coerced confessions carry little weight, given that they might be false and almost never accepted into evidence. But the U.S. Supreme Court judge stressed that he was not speaking about putting together pristine prosecutions, but rather, about allowing agents the freedom to thwart immediate attacks.

    “I don’t care about holding people. I really don’t,” Judge Scalia said.

    Even if a real terrorist who suffered mistreatment is released because of complaints of abuse, Judge Scalia said, the interruption to the terrorist’s plot would have ensured “in Los Angeles everyone is safe.” During a break from the panel, Judge Scalia specifically mentioned the segment in Season 2 when Jack Bauer finally figures out how to break the die-hard terrorist intent on nuking L.A. The real genius, the judge said, is that this is primarily done with mental leverage. “There’s a great scene where he told a guy that he was going to have his family killed,” Judge Scalia said. “They had it on closed circuit television - and it was all staged. … They really didn’t kill the family.”

    Gospel according to Jack

    “Tell me where the bomb is or I will kill your son.”

    “I don’t want to bypass the Constitution, but these are extraordinary circumstances.”

    “I need to use every advantage I’ve got.”

    “If we want to procure any information from this suspect, we’re going to have to do it behind closed doors.”

    “I’m talking about doing what’s necessary to stop this warhead from being used against us.”

    “When I’m finished with you, you’re gonna wish that you felt this good again.”

    “You don’t have any more useful information, do you?”

    Posted 15 years ago #
  3. truthmover
    Administrator

    Great post. I just watched the second two hours tonight of the season premier. That will do it for me. Yet again justification for torture was front and center. They played a bit of lip service to the law, but evidently every time an FBI agent really cares about something torture is our little secret.

    What a welcome coincidence that Obama announces that torture is off the table on Friday. Announces that Gitmo is closing today, and the two day season premier of 'torture show' was yesterday and today.

    The exact timing is certainly a coincidence. But the themes being addressed in this new season just as Obama takes office might be less so.

    Posted 15 years ago #
  4. emanuel
    Member

    Perhaps we should be expecting Obama to invade Africa sometime soon? I have always felt 24 was the most heavily propagandized TV show, and I only watched the first season!

    Emanuel

    Posted 15 years ago #
  5. NicholasLevis
    Member

    Obama or not, the creation of AFRICOM suggests military interventions in Africa are on the empire's wish list. It's been a staple demand of the liberal humanitarian interventionists within the Democratic Party, like Obama adviser Samantha Powers (the one who had to go but will probably be back). Obama's the perfect face to put on it. Is it what he wants, will it actually happen? I'd say it's less than 50-50, given the financial crisis and overextension of the military. Depends on what kind of additional means of persuasion are used.

    Posted 15 years ago #
  6. Durruti
    Member

    Talk about sick and twisted:

    The producer of "24" is none other than the "squeaky clean" Ron Howard, award-winning director of "Apollo 13" who began his career playing Andy Griffith's TV son, Opie.

    Lest we forget, "extraordinary rendition" did not begin under Bush but the man his mother likes to call "son", Bill Clinton.

    Bill Clinton: "Torture Like on 24 Is OK" America needs more Jack Bauer like agents says former President

    Former president Bill Clinton has told NBC's Meet The Press that America needs more intelligence agents who make their own rules and engage in whatever actions are necessary like Jack Bauer from the fictional TV show 24.

    "I think what our policy ought to be is to be uncompromisingly opposed to terror--I mean to torture, and that if you're the Jack Bauer person, you'll do whatever you do and you should be prepared to take the consequences... And I think the consequences will be imposed based on what turns out to be the truth." Clinton said.

    Posted 15 years ago #
  7. Durruti
    Member

    P.S.

    Thanks for the review. I'd hate to have to watch that shit myself.

    Posted 15 years ago #
  8. NicholasLevis
    Member

    Durruti:

    Can you link to Clinton saying that stuff?

    (He says it as though "The Jack Bauer person" is an actual rank in the government?!)

    I should correct my post above:

    Obama or not, the creation of AFRICOM suggests MORE military interventions in Africa are on the imperial wish list. (Since of course there already are various interventions by covert special forces, by warlords financed by corporations and in the form of arms shipments, not just by US-based actors but by France, Belgium, China, Russia and other powers, and these helped cause situations like the genocide in Rwanda and the subsequent Congo war.)

    It's been a staple demand of the liberal-humanitarian imperialists within the Democratic Party, like Obama adviser Samantha Powers (the one who had to go because of her ill-chosen words about Hillary Clinton, but who will probably be back).

    Obama's the perfect face to put on it. Is it what he wants, will it actually happen? Although interventionism will continue in the same way as today, I'd say it's less than 50-50 that there will be a substantial expansion of US troop presence or entry into hostilities, given the financial crisis and overextension of the US military. Depends on what kind of additional means of persuasion are used (i.e., what incidents might happen or be engineered, and what kinds of interests are determined to be paramount with regard to oil access, for example, since depending on how things go the US may be cut off from places like Venezuela, etc. etc.).

    Posted 15 years ago #

Reply

You must log in to post.