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Familiar reasons why my friend was turned off by a 9/11 truth meeting (14 posts)

  1. truthmover
    Administrator

    A friend of mine familiar with 9/11 truth, told me that he recently went to a 9/11 truth meeting in L.A. and that it really turned him off. I asked for more details and he sent me the following.

    1. They asked for a $10 minimum donation to enter the meeting. I don't mind them asking for donations, but being pressured at the door was wack. I don't think anybody should be selling this information, and I think this would turn off anyone curious about 911.

    2. They virtually demanded that everyone leave their name and e-mail. I told them I would prefer not to. I got a few curious looks after this, like I was a G-man or something.

    3. The guy organizing it was going off on a lot of tangents, including the Queen of England and other things. Now I'm probably as "fringe" as anyone else out there and I wouldn't disagree with him, but I find these subjects would confuse or alienate anyone new.

    4. The people themselves had a lot of frenetic energy. I think a good portion of the attendees aren't the best socializers in everyday society. This is probably why it was easier for them to accept the truths about 911, figuring they weren't fitting into the mainstream anyways and had nothing to lose. Unfortunately, I think this makes 911truth more of a local club for them to have social interaction, and not as a place to create worthwhile activism. It pretty much felt like One Flew Over the Cookoo's Nest.

    Posted 16 years ago #
  2. truthmover
    Administrator

    My friend added:

    Although I don't think that it was being run in a way I would like to be part of, I am very happy that all of these people are at least doing something to bring awareness to the issue of 911. For most people I come across, accepting the truth or questioning their spoon fed beliefs is a near impossible feat.

    Posted 16 years ago #
  3. JennySparks
    Member

    This is typical from reports I have heard, though the donation bit is new. Certainly the amount asked for is right out. A dollar would be reasonable, for repeat members. Asking newcomers is just boneheaded.

    They virtually demanded that everyone leave their name and e-mail. I told them I would prefer not to. I got a few curious looks after this, like I was a G-man or something.

    This is very clumsy. This should always be presented as a choice. OTOH its a good idea to go prepared with an email account dedicated just for this, or better yet, send someone in your place to scope the sitch out(if you think something really shady might be going on). Buy them a pizza. ;-)

    The people themselves had a lot of frenetic energy. I think a good portion of the attendees aren't the best socializers in everyday society. This is probably why it was easier for them to accept the truths about 911, figuring they weren't fitting into the mainstream anyways and had nothing to lose. Unfortunately, I think this makes 911truth more of a local club for them to have social interaction, and not as a place to create worthwhile activism. It pretty much felt like One Flew Over the Cookoo's Nest.

    I've also heard this reported. Question: how long has the group been in existence? If it's been for more than a year and they have events to point to, I'd go carefully.

    They're organized enough to ask for money and have contact lists, but they can't socialize effectively? I call this the "wacky outsiders" performance. If you stay long enough, you'll be able to see who is probably real and who is probably putting on an act. Also watch out for people who say they're proud to be called "conspiracy theorists". The goal could be to alienate level headed people(they just go away) and consolidate control over the remaining folks who identify culturally with how the group is presenting itself.

    You might think I'm being harsh, but in discussing this with other activists--peace activists--the group dynamics reported in many 911 groups are off the charts into strangeness, even by radical/outsider politics standards.

    Also beware of the tag team "sane group" that will pop up if the wackyness wasn't enough to put you off. Some clues they are not what they seem to be, are making assertions that reveal they know more than they should as they have presented themselves.

    Example: saying "so and so has aligned themselves with right wing people", when this has not actually been observed, nor has the person expressed these views in your presence. And when you ask how they know this, they get vague about how they know this or specific cases. Answer: it was an assertion with the goal of consolidating your political allegiance--you weren't supposed to question it critically. The key here is the assertion was true. Once you start digging, you realize the "sane group's" knowledge base contradicts their story about themselves. The most glaring question being, if they knew about this objectionable stuff for months, possibly years, why are they still in the group? And if the rest of the group hates them so much, why weren't they kicked out?

    Posted 16 years ago #
  4. bbruhwiler8
    Member

    My name is Bruno, and I am with WeAreChangeLA. This gathering that you are talking about was a 911truthla.com gathering organized by Peter Thottam (The guy organizing it was going off on a lot of tangents, including the Queen of England and other things). He has been banned from 911blogger.com and other organizations including WeAreChangeLA because of his antics.

    If you would like to join a 911 truth group in Los Angeles, that really focuses on waking up others to the truth about 9-11 then check out our website at wacla.org, or go directly to our meetup at 9-11.meetup.com/359. We had lots of fun today exercising our freedoms and our rights while spreading the truth about 9-11. Also check out our YouTube channel at youtube.com/wearechangela.

    With you in the struggle, Bruno WeAreChangeLA

    Posted 16 years ago #
  5. Victronix
    Member

    The people themselves had a lot of frenetic energy.

    You find the same at any Unitarian Social Justice mtg, and probably dozens of other small orgs. And many are at such mtgs because they have nothing else to do.

    Interestg that Peter T has been banned . . . if you can, could you post more details on the antics? This is important as he is blanketing activists w/ his reports, invitations, etc., and the outcome will be the above.

    Posted 16 years ago #
  6. truthmod
    Administrator

    Through my limited experience, I would also recommend WACLA. I met some very reasonable people from that group at the Santa Cruz conference.

    Individual activism is also highly encouraged. If you have the motivation/dedication to do something on your own or with a couple friends, then go for it. Don't limit yourself to the existing groups or modes of activism.

    Posted 16 years ago #
  7. Victronix
    Member

    This discussion is noted on this thread --

    http://www.911blogger.com/node/17104#comment-19450...

    I could write a book (and it looks like I may have to) about the turf wars in the LA 9/11 Truth Movement, fueled mostly by Bruno, and most recently on the Truthmove forum.

    Posted 16 years ago #
  8. JennySparks
    Member

    You find the same at any Unitarian Social Justice mtg, and probably dozens of other small orgs. And many are at such mtgs because they have nothing else to do.

    This is true to some extent, but in some cases it really is off the charts even by radical/alternative group standards. One way to test it is have someone go to a 911 meeting of one of the weird groups, then go to another local meeting--permaculture, immigrant justice, whatever. Meetings of a group that has been around long enough to do anything, should have a structure. There is a way a group of focused people who have skills comport themselves, even if they have a high energy level. You can walk in the room and feel it. Or not.

    But it helps to get specifics down--it is possible to catch people on a bad day. ;-)

    Posted 16 years ago #
  9. nornnxx65
    Member

    I don't know if it's the reason Thottam was banned, but he posted a news article at 911Blogger.com which was about 911TruthLA but had the website wrong (it didn't have LA); that was the one change that Reprehensor noted (unless he pointed out others after I stopped following the thread), but he deleted the article, reposted the correct version and warned that anyone who changed anything in a news article posting would be banned immediately. Imho, zero tolerance on something like that is good, although that particular change just seems self-serving.

    I went to one 911TruthLA event that had Barb Honnegger, Griffin and others- the atmosphere was totally like church, lots of sensational stuff, very little substantive evidence presented- i was already wary due to their association with Lynn Pentz, and that did it in for me, i'll never attend another thing organized by them. The TruthAction LA organizers are cool, i have not run into WACLA yet, but this code of conduct is cool, would that the US government be as good:

    http://wacla.org/about/ Code of Conduct

    Posted 16 years ago #
  10. truthmover
    Administrator

    911truthLA sounds very much like it's infiltrated and useless just like NY911Truth.

    WACLA looks to have the same set of problems as most of the other chapters, with an extra layer of common sense that doesn't make up for poor strategy.

    I hope that all honest and fairly informed truthers will just avoid both groups and either have a talk to the TruthActionLA people, or just start a group of your own.

    Posted 16 years ago #
  11. bbruhwiler8
    Member

    I hope that all honest and fairly informed truthers will come to a WACLA meeting or a street action, and you will immediately see what we are about. Our actions are all very effective, rewarding and fun.

    Start a group of your own? Excellent idea, seriously. The more groups we have, and the less centralized, then the harder it is to stop the current momentum of the 9-11 Truth Movement.

    Whatever you do, please, just get out there and wake people up. :)

    With you in the struggle, Bruno WeAreChangeLA

    Posted 16 years ago #
  12. truthmover
    Administrator

    That was a bit overly dismissive on my part. I was feeling frustrated with what I perceive to be the lack of a strong 9/11 truth organizations in both LA and NY. But you all don't need my frustration. And I can take some of the blame.

    WACLA sounds like a lot of fun. I'm sure you guys inform a lot of people, and I'm a big fan of your guidelines. But I'm also a strong critic of the organization at large, it's relationship with police, the 'scum chart' confrontations, and Alex Jones.

    I have stated many times in many places that I respect the diversity among WAC chapters. I know that not everyone in every group subscribes to all of the things that I have found questionable. And there are WAC chapters that have demonstrated a considerable degree of independence, such as your own, from what I understand. But WAC has begun to be recognized as a national entity. What happens to one group may affect the rest. May affect us all.

    So then, trying to recover from my fumble up there, I'm interested to know what your opinion is on the national character of the organization. Do you ever worry that one group might tarnish the reputation of many?

    Posted 16 years ago #
  13. truthmod
    Administrator

    Google Groups: You've been added to 911TruthLA

    Peter Thottam added my personal (non-TruthMove) email address to this Google Group without my permission.

    That's not cool.

    Peter Thottam peterthottam@gmail.com has added you to the 911TruthLA group with this message:

    911TruthLA holds regular meetings on the first Saturday of the Month. Refreshments, Movie screenings, critical analysis and discussions about local and national 911Truth developments. 1:00 PM to 5:00 PM. The Unurban Café Pico and 33rd, Santa Monica . Call Peter at (310) 497-7255 for details.

    http://groups.google.com/group/911TruthLA?hl=en

    Posted 16 years ago #
  14. truthmover
    Administrator

    More than not cool, it's most likely a not-so-subtle message to us that he is paying attention to what we are saying here. Totally shady. And just a bit predictable to me at this point. Everyone I don't trust in the movement acts like they are thirteen years old. Really. I don't know any adults who plays those sorts of games. Most likely because I avoid them entirely. But I've worked with some kids who do.

    Posted 16 years ago #

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